'Creeping'

Ripley had a fairly solid down wait at the start line (and by that I mean 99% success rate) until she had time off for pups 4 months ago, now she is seriously creeping up to the first jump.
I have tried various things such as changing my body language when i walk away, returning and rewarding the wait, removing her from the ring every time she breaks her wait etc, none have worked.

Ive gone back to training and reinforcing the down wait away from agility and she has 100% success rate until I move more than 6feet away, then I have to put her back on the spot several times before she will wait, I have continually gone back to basics until I have proofed (or thought I had) the wait at a lesser distance.

I'm really not sure on where else to go from here!

Proof it in a square of 4 jumps, then release her over different ones. That worked for a person I taught once. Use the tuggy as a huge reward and have that on your lead and chucked well behind you.

If she is breaking the wait you are going too far----doesn't matter that she did it before, she doesn't do it now.

As soon as she breaks in the ring you have lost. What does your trainer suggest?

rune

Do you allow your dog to jump once she has crept?

If so, this is why the down is decaying.

If you want to prevent this happening at all then you have to be consistent and relentless and every time the dog creeps, take her out of the jumping arena and put her away in the car for a while.

It means short term losses but long term gains.

If you are black and white with the dog ie creep = no jumping and solid down = jumping, then the dog will quickly learn.

Most people are not that self disciplined though..........

Thanks for the replies

I do this every time I train her, she waits until I get around 6 foot away and then it is a battle of me continually putting her back until she does wait and then I reward behind her and then eventually release her over different obstacles.
In training class if she breaks her wait I put her back, if she breaks for a second time then we let someone else go instead and then try again.
No, she is not allowed to jump, if she creeps I put her back and she is not rewarded/released until she stays in position and I release her.

Ah but she is still allowed to jump after making a creep, I would not allow it.

One strike and you are out.

So for me it would be, creep, there are no second chances, after all, what would you do in a competition?

How often are you releasing her before 6 foot?
I wouldnt be rushing things - if she fails at 6 foot I would do 1 foot reward, 3 feet release behind, 2 foot release to jumps, 4 foot reward, 6 foot reward, 2 foot release to side
Muddle it up, reward without releasing, release to play, all sorts of things

If she is creeping you have lost before you have begun. Don't go that far---return BEFORE she starts creeping and reward either with a jump behind her or another high value reward. A pat on the head isn't enough and one creep is one too many.

Sounds like the creep, put back, stay put, reward, has become a chain for her.

rune

I concur.

The dog is anticipating the jump, so I train a dog to have its ears on.

Just because it is in a particular position in a particular place does NOT mean it will always mean the same thing.

the dog learns that I might say

Sit (and return)
Sit then retrieve
Sit then come
Sit then heel

You have become too predictable.

I do realise I may have become to predictable to her when I took her wait for granted.
When I realised we were having trouble, I started to make myself unpredictable, sometimes I do release her to the obstacle, other times i release to a toy in different positions around her or in my hand, other times I ask for a different position or sometimes I return and fuss her or stand behin her to release etc. I really dont feel I am predictable to her any longer in the sense that she knows what is coming next, but I understand the creep-back-release is a chain..

I am going back and rewarding ALOT when she doesnt move at all (when less than 6ft really) and she is pretty solid on this.

I think it is just going to take time and me being very self disciplined with her and sacrificing runs if she breaks her wait.

Thanks for all the advice.

It sounds like she is probably picking up on your concern surrounding the wait as well. I have a "will she won't she" waiter and I know as I walk away I'm not confident that she will hold..... result .... A break.
When you leave her in a wait do you command her only once? If yes and she still breaks I would not make any vocal communication at all, just calmly put her lead on and take her away from the equipment. I wouldn't put her back to try again as I really believe this should be a zero tolerance situation. I have a friend with a contact issue, dog comes off and gets put back on. He now thinks that the correct way to complete a contact is to come off and then put his two back feet on it. Another way to proof it away from the equipment to start with is to leave the dog in a wait, walk away and then fire lots of different words at them to make them really listen for the correct release. I found this really useful especially when some rings are really noisy. Occasionally my younger dog doesn't release on the first " ok" if he's not totally sure he's heard it.
I hope you get it sorted it's definately worth the perseverance.

Jo