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TabithaJ
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02-05-2011, 05:15 PM
As someone who adopted a rather reactive dog, I empathise. Dexter has also gone hurtling across the park, barking at someone he felt was 'different'.

But I put him on a long line and have kept him on it for months now. I recommend you do the same - I started with a ten meter one, and recently switched to a 20 meter line, giving him more freedom.

I also think you *must* muzzle Lana - it's not fair to other dogs and also if she does bite/nip another person, you could find yourself in a lot of trouble. There is also the risk that if Lana gets classed as 'dangerous' that you could even lose her - so for everyone's sake, get a muzzle and do NOT let her out without it until you have managed to resolve these issues.

Dexter used to lunge violently and bark and generally go beserk at various people, other dogs, motorbikes, and the list goes on.... I found that one to one sessions with a very experienced trainer have made the world of difference.

I have also walked him on a headcollar for the past eight months and this has also helped - it puts ME back in control which relaxes me, which in turn relaxes HIM. Crucially, it also means I can reward him for calmer behaviour.


I would recommend you look around for a good trainer and also get a muzzle and a well-fitting headcollar.

If it's any consolation, I've spent quite a bit of the past year apologising to people for things Dexter has done - so you are not alone
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TabithaJ
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02-05-2011, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by 1cutedog View Post


I have a flat collar on Lana and have the security bit which attaches from the halti to the collar, but I'm thinking that's not what you meant. Right I'll see about a double ended lead which can attach to the halti and the collar. I can't hold her on a normal collar, she's far too strong for me. It's embarassing really as she's not a big dog but appears to be pure muscle. When I think of the skinny dog I picked up it never crossed my mind she would be too strong for me.


Don't be embarrassed - not for a second.

Dexter is a very slim Lab but he is pure muscle and so strong people are always astonished. I had a hellish time walking him until I got a headcollar - I could not control him and at times people would stare at us as Dexter was literally on his back legs, standing beside me and trying to get to the cat/bird/squirrel he'd just seen.

On one occasion, he actually jumped into a total stranger's CAR!

Honestly, virtually all of us have been embarrassed at some point or another but the reality is, you do the best you can

If the Halti works for you that's fab. Dogmatic is a good one, if Lana couldn't open her mouth the size may well have been wrong.

I use the Black Dog halter and really recommend it

GOOD LUCK
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tyr
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02-05-2011, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by TabithaJ
Don't be embarrassed - not for a second.
Agreed. I was handed a tiny JRT bitch once - she pulled like a tank! And I won't mention the occasion when my 16 kg BSD ran full pelt into the end of her long lead. I was standing on gravel and did a slapstick fall... all in front of an audience!

It's responsible of you to get the tools you need to handle your dog safely. I think one of the most important things is for you to feel in control. That'll make you feel calmer and more confident, which, in turn, will send out all the right signals to your dog.

Re: setbacks, do you keep a doggy diary? In times of dark despair, it really helps me to look back at the very beginning and see that there actually is some real progress over time!
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1cutedog
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02-05-2011, 10:56 PM
Smokeybear thanks for the name of the book, I'll get searching and order it. It might be helpful until I save enough for the behaviourist. I do think I need help with this as I am not experienced enough to cope alone and wouldn't like to make Lana worse.

TabithaJ I remember reading your posts about Dexter which I very much enjoyed as it was great to know I wasn't alone with the cat problem especially. I'll be putting the muzzle on Lana once it arrives. I've got the halti just now so can control her with that and she's quite happy wearing it. I'll keep her to street walks for a while. Took her out tonight and she walked much better than usual, no pulling, it must have been the strong no nonsense vibes I was sending out

The first dog she nipped, I made excuses to myself and really didn't expect any further problems as she's not been like that before. I don't know the owner but when I told my son it's actually his friends dad and his friend said that he thinks the dog gives off wrong vibes as it's always being attacked. So see, it wasn't Lanas fault, was my excuse.

The second dog pinched Lanas ball and was growling at the owner when she tried to get the ball of her and once before with another dog when this happened and the owner gave me the ball back, the dog went for Lana and had her upside down and was on top of her so I thought it might have been because of that. Also when the woman handed the ball back to me her dog growled in my direction, which was when Lana went for her so I had the excuse that she was either scared the dog would go for her or me.

I really don't know what happened with the 3rd dog. She had run down to one of her doggy friends who was with another and was out of my sight for a couple of seconds. The owners weren't sure what happened and which one started it but she got the dogs ear and it was bleeding. She had been fine with other dogs in between but this was the third time in 3 days so at last I realised something was going on and I couldn't trust her off lead anymore.

Lana was like Dexter, motorbikes, bicycles, skateboards, certain people and cats. She's been fine with them all recently apart from the cats so I really thought she had cracked it.

People have been remarking recently on how much calmer she is and how well behaved so this was like a bolt from the blue.

Tyr I don't keep a doggy diary but it does sound a good idea so thanks for that. at your slapstick fall. I'm definitely sticking to the halti or the black dog collar as Lana can't pull meover when wearing one of those.
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nickmcmechan
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03-05-2011, 06:58 AM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Yvonne Walker of the Darcgregan Dog Training Centre is a behaviourist, who trained with John Rogerson; she may be able to help you or point you to someone near to you.
I know Yvonne (she has judged me a couple of times at working trials) - very positive and encouraging; brings the best out in you; would back this up

I've also used Mat Ward (need a vet referral) who lives in East Lothian- he has previously worked at Dick Vet and in Film industry (training animals for film). Mat lives in East Lothian and charges mileage which will be pricey, but helped me a lot with Lady's dog agression issues.
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TabithaJ
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03-05-2011, 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by 1cutedog View Post

TabithaJ I remember reading your posts about Dexter which I very much enjoyed as it was great to know I wasn't alone with the cat problem especially. I'll be putting the muzzle on Lana once it arrives. I've got the halti just now so can control her with that and she's quite happy wearing it. I'll keep her to street walks for a while. Took her out tonight and she walked much better than usual, no pulling, it must have been the strong no nonsense vibes I was sending out

Lana was like Dexter, motorbikes, bicycles, skateboards, certain people and cats. She's been fine with them all recently apart from the cats so I really thought she had cracked it.

People have been remarking recently on how much calmer she is and how well behaved so this was like a bolt from the blue.



Sounds to me like you are doing fab -)

One of the things that our trainer taught me is that if we walk tall and *look* confident, our dog will start to have more confidence in us. At first, because Dexter was kicking off at so many things, I found this really very hard - I was so tense the whole time!

But once you are using a good headcollar and know that the dog cannot pull you off balance, you WILL gradually start to feel more in control and yes, you are right - DO send your dog a 'I'm in charge and not taking any nonsense' message'

Ultimately only ONE of us can be in charge - it's us, or the dog. And much as I adore and cherish my dog, I have to be in charge for both our sakes

So just keep on walking tall, walking calmly - oh and also even IF you encounter a 'trigger' that would normally make your dog kick off, if you can just keep on walking at the same pace and not pause, honestly this makes a HUGE difference!

Because the dog takes his cue from you -)

I know it's hard work, especially with reactive dogs - you're doing GREAT

Dexter still goes slightly mad with cats, by the way But slowly getting better...
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Bitkin
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03-05-2011, 06:09 PM
Only just seen this thread 1cutedog, and am so sorry about your latest troubles with the lovely Lana. If we knew what was in store for us when we first took on these rescue dogs I wonder if we would still do it??! Yes, we probably would

I have no advice other than what others have already said, and think that the main priority for the moment is making Lana "safe" around people and dogs, which means muzzling her whenever you are out for the moment. At least then you will be able to relax a little knowing that she cannot take a chunk out of anything, although you will have to be vigilant that she doesn't antagonise an aggressive dog as she won't be able to fight back.

I do hope that you can resolve all this - you might be right in thinking that the changes at home might have made her nervous. Oooooh, do I take it that a new carpet means no more SA??!!!!!

Take care. xxxx
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Kerryowner
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03-05-2011, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by Bitkin View Post
Only just seen this thread 1cutedog, and am so sorry about your latest troubles with the lovely Lana. If we knew what was in store for us when we first took on these rescue dogs I wonder if we would still do it??! Yes, we probably would

I have no advice other than what others have already said, and think that the main priority for the moment is making Lana "safe" around people and dogs, which means muzzling her whenever you are out for the moment. At least then you will be able to relax a little knowing that she cannot take a chunk out of anything, although you will have to be vigilant that she doesn't antagonise an aggressive dog as she won't be able to fight back.

I do hope that you can resolve all this - you might be right in thinking that the changes at home might have made her nervous. Oooooh, do I take it that a new carpet means no more SA??!!!!!

Take care. xxxx
No I wouldn't have had Cherry had I known the aggro and stress she would bring me! Saying that when you do make progress it is wonderful and I do have a very good bond with Cherry now and she's fantastic 95% of the time!

I thought that writing a diary of your dog's good behaviours/good days/incidents was a brilliant idea.

I know it's not cheap but I would recommend a good behaviourist as this really helped me with Cherry when I was almost at give up point. Best wishes.
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1cutedog
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03-05-2011, 07:57 PM
nickmcmechan thanks very much for recommending Matt Ward, he's one that I've bookmarked, it's good to hear from someone who has used him before. I'll be phoning a couple of them soon and see which one I prefer before going ahead with it.

TabithaJ, you said
So just keep on walking tall, walking calmly - oh and also even IF you encounter a 'trigger' that would normally make your dog kick off, if you can just keep on walking at the same pace and not pause, honestly this makes a HUGE difference!

Well I didn't do that today. We went up in the wilds for a walk which I won't do again, don't like out in the wilds, no one to hear you scream We were walking along a path and there was a horse with his head right over the fence. I put Lana on the opposite side of me and walked forward a bit. I then told her to sit and tried to give her a treat. She wasn't interested in the treat, so focused on the horse, so I turned around and went back the way we'd come. I thought it would be too stressful for her to go past the horse as she's never seen one before. She was bad enough with a peacock the other week, growling and barking and I didn't want her getting stressed.

Bitkin, if I had known what Lana was like would I have taken her. As I didn't know her at the time I have to say I probably wouldn't have. Now that I have her and know her of course I wouldn't give her up. I've had her walking on the halti today with the lead quite short and she's been fine. I've tried to avoid any triggers, walking past dogs or people taking her onto the road to get past people and she was fine.

Still got SA but I didn't like the varnished floorboards as we are in an upper flat and she couldn't play in the house, so now I've decided to stay here, well I couldn't afford to move anyway, got the carpet. It's great, I have it going up and covering the skirting boards so if she's playing with a treat ball it doesn't bang of the skirting boards making a noise. Lana loves it, she lies on it in the sun, I can roll the ball across the floor and have her chasing after it. We can play tuggy and I can get her to sit more often. I stopped asking her to sit much as she would slide on the floor. I've got enough to do the hallway as well so she can sit while I'm putting her lead on and things like that.

I sometimes leave her for up to an hour and she seems fine, although when I came back after 45 minutes today she was barking, but someone might have come up the stairs or something. I gave her serene um yesterday and today as she seems nervous lately. This has started since my son moved out, so she maybe misses him, plus with him moving stuff out, me moving furniture from one room to the other and the carpet coming, I think it's maybe been too much for her.

If I hadn't bought the carpet I could have afforded to get a behavourist in, the timing wasn't great on that but she gets great pleasure out the carpet so how can I regret getting it. I'll just get saving madly now and get someone in as really she's a great wee dog and it's a shame she has to be so fearful.

Kerryowner I will get a behavourist in, it's good to know it can work and I'm so glad one helped you with Cherry.
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SLB
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03-05-2011, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Hi, first things first, if you let me know what particular part of Scotland you live in I may be able to refer you to a reputable behaviourist.

Seondly, to avoid any possibility of your dog biting people or dogs, why do you not muzzle her?

Thirdly, why not keep her on a long line if you cannot control her off lead and thus maintain both her safety and that of others?

Fourthly, I think you may have over estimated the level of counter conditioning and desensitisation this dog needs because you believe you had trained it out of her, but this may have only been a superficial fix which, as you have seen, has fallen apart very quickly.

Fifthly, if you DID have the dog on a line AND a muzzle, you would not have to react the way you did, thus INCREASING the level of insecurity and tension in your dog.

Sixthly, and most importantly, NOBODY I know has never done anything stupid, I still often do....... so chin up.

Remember you have had your dog longer than she was anywhere else, therefore get out of the "what she was" mode of thinking and concentrate on "what she is, and what she could be"!
I can't add to what everyone has said but I find S.B's 6th point very very very important. You'll make these mistakes and be prepared for next time. It's a learning curve - learn from it, take notes and move on

Let us know how she progresses good luck to you, I have a reactive dog too - 2 years on and he can walk past men, women, buggy's, bikes and children without any problems. You'll get there - have a vision and work towards it.
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