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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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05-02-2011, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley 
Is it influential to talk to Danny? Wow! I'm sure he'll be impressed, particularly coming from someone who has, by implication, tried hard to discredit him
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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
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05-02-2011, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
I have used e collars on small dogs.
I have used e collars on young dogs.
Because its adjustable it doesn't matter.
Adam
I am glad you are still on this forum (for now) because it is widely read and this means that many, many people will know of your revolting habit. That is, animal abuse.
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Location: USA/UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,421
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05-02-2011, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by LuvMyDog
Hmmm, that seemed to be incorporated by the method too. It did come up as a portion of the overall training technique but not a solution in its own right. Dogs were also taught to recognise the smell and sound of a harmful snake, what with those being more highly developed senses in a dog than sight to keep them out of harms way at the first indication. As some have mentioned, it didn't help much when the dog wandered near a snake hidden in long grass, so if the snake stays quiet and down wind it can go unoticed, but ultimately that's what snakes do and it's what makes them such efficient predators.
I'm still more convinced by their technique than yours.
I couldn't give a monkey's **** if you think my technique works on not, several years of living here, with two dogs that had previously never seen a snake before, and so far no mishaps in an area that gets a lot of snakes, venomous ones. My dogs have learnt to keep well clear if we/they see one, sorry, but you don't mess around out here some of the places we hike, you don't just let dogs off in undergrowth and roam, they have to stay on the trail for their own safety and other animals. It isn't Disneyland, my dogs know to avoid snakes, God forbid we stumble on one accidently, then that is a different issue, you can't do anything about that, a shock collar won't help you there, you just have to hope the snake won't strike, and you can back away.
I don't have to justify my training to you, but I do feel proud that my dogs have learnt without ever inflicting any pain on them.
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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,012
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05-02-2011, 10:10 PM
why o why someone that uses electric shocks on puppies is allowed to post is beyond me
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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05-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
See my previouse response.
Btw I thought you had a direct line to mills, maybe not so influential as you think eh?
Adam.
No , I never mentioned having a line to Professor Mills ,please check through my posts .I merely mentioned in passing my intention to contact him and others involved in the e collar study.
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Location: Stourbridge, UK
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 88
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05-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Lucky Star
Please excuse me and forgive if I have failed to notice an answer to the post below. However, since I have failed to notice one, or I have been denied an answer - again - I have no choice but to make assumptions (in red and bold):
Anyway (again):
So LuvMyDog (I will resist using your name extension although I think it is apt) -
1)when you sell your prong/pinch collars, do you offer to go and train the new owner of the device? NO!
2) You know, to ensure that they know exactly when and how it should be used? Do you assess the dog before the sale to ensure it is appropriate for that dog and that situation? NO!
3) Do you include, as part of the contract, that the device must only be used in conjunction with an expert? NO!
4) Do you sell these devices to owners of puppies and small dogs? YES!
Sorry, there's only one of me and these posts are coming in at an alarming rate.
1) When you go into Pets at Home and buy a flat collar, halti, rubber toy etc, do they offer to come round and make sure you know how to use it? Do Ancol have a team of trainers at hand to rush out at a moments notice every time an EPoS scans one of their products? Do Halti hand deliver their headcollars with a persnal trainer for you? Didn't think so. In fact, do you have any guarantee that all along the supply chain everyone is an expert on that exact piece of equipment or could answer a basic question on it?
2) No, I deal with adults. Adults who are capable of making their own decisions based on their own circumstance. Was the customer extended this service on their previous choice of equipment? Obviously not, we hear some tragic tales of unsuitable equipment.
3) The contract is for the supply of goods, much past that we can't dictate any terms. How do we differ from any seller of any other goods and services in that respect? Even licensed equipment doesn't always carry those terms.
4) Not by recommendation no, but ultimately there are other outlets and if someone wants a prong collar but we refuse to sell one they can easily just go and buy one elsewhere.
Ah, small dogs. Definitely. Small dogs aren't any less prone to pulling on the lead, the main difference is they're not hard to hold back like, say, a neapolitan mastiff. Owners don't always associate the potential damage to the dog unless it physically affects them first, like an aching shoulder or elbow that a big dog could cause. A small dog putting all its small weight and small pull into a small collar will crush its small windpipe just the same as a big dog. So a prong collar is equally suitable, partly as protection to the dog.
C'mon, lets have it, wicked irresponsible seller of death devices, obviously don't love dogs, not a care in the world about the harm being caused, should be flogged....etc etc?
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Location: Stourbridge, UK
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 88
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05-02-2011, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Moonstone
I couldn't give a monkey's **** if you think my technique works on not, several years of living here, with two dogs that had previously never seen a snake before, and so far no mishaps in an area that gets a lot of snakes, venomous ones. My dogs have learnt to keep well clear if we/they see one, sorry, but you don't mess around out here some of the places we hike, you don't just let dogs off in undergrowth and roam, they have to stay on the trail for their own safety and other animals. It isn't Disneyland, my dogs know to avoid snakes, God forbid we stumble on one accidently, then that is a different issue, you can't do anything about that, a shock collar won't help you there, you just have to hope the snake won't strike, and you can back away.
I don't have to justify my training to you, but I do feel proud that my dogs have learnt without ever inflicting any pain on them.
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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05-02-2011, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by LuvMyDog
Originally Posted by Lucky Star
Anyway (again):
So LuvMyDog (I will resist using your name extension although I think it is apt) -
1)when you sell your prong/pinch collars, do you offer to go and train the new owner of the device? NO!
2) You know, to ensure that they know exactly when and how it should be used? Do you assess the dog before the sale to ensure it is appropriate for that dog and that situation? NO!
3) Do you include, as part of the contract, that the device must only be used in conjunction with an expert? NO!
4) Do you sell these devices to owners of puppies and small dogs? YES!
Sorry, there's only one of me and these posts are coming in at an alarming rate.
1) When you go into Pets at Home and buy a flat collar, halti, rubber toy etc, do they offer to come round and make sure you know how to use it? Do Ancol have a team of trainers at hand to rush out at a moments notice every time an EPoS scans one of their products? Do Halti hand deliver their headcollars with a persnal trainer for you? Didn't think so. In fact, do you have any guarantee that all along the supply chain everyone is an expert on that exact piece of equipment or could answer a basic question on it?
2) No, I deal with adults. Adults who are capable of making their own decisions based on their own circumstance. Was the customer extended this service on their previous choice of equipment? Obviously not, we hear some tragic tales of unsuitable equipment.
3) The contract is for the supply of goods, much past that we can't dictate any terms. How do we differ from any seller of any other goods and services in that respect? Even licensed equipment doesn't always carry those terms.
4) Not by recommendation no, but ultimately there are other outlets and if someone wants a prong collar but we refuse to sell one they can easily just go and buy one elsewhere.
Ah, small dogs. Definitely. Small dogs aren't any less prone to pulling on the lead, the main difference is they're not hard to hold back like, say, a neapolitan mastiff. Owners don't always associate the potential damage to the dog unless it physically affects them first, like an aching shoulder or elbow that a big dog could cause. A small dog putting all its small weight and small pull into a small collar will crush its small windpipe just the same as a big dog. So a prong collar is equally suitable, partly as protection to the dog.
C'mon, lets have it, wicked irresponsible seller of death devices, obviously don't love dogs, not a care in the world about the harm being caused, should be flogged....etc etc?
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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
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05-02-2011, 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by LuvMyDog
Originally Posted by Lucky Star
Anyway (again):
So LuvMyDog (I will resist using your name extension although I think it is apt) -
1)when you sell your prong/pinch collars, do you offer to go and train the new owner of the device? NO!
2) You know, to ensure that they know exactly when and how it should be used? Do you assess the dog before the sale to ensure it is appropriate for that dog and that situation? NO!
3) Do you include, as part of the contract, that the device must only be used in conjunction with an expert? NO!
4) Do you sell these devices to owners of puppies and small dogs? YES!
Sorry, there's only one of me and these posts are coming in at an alarming rate.
1) When you go into Pets at Home and buy a flat collar, halti, rubber toy etc, do they offer to come round and make sure you know how to use it? Do Ancol have a team of trainers at hand to rush out at a moments notice every time an EPoS scans one of their products? Do Halti hand deliver their headcollars with a persnal trainer for you? Didn't think so. In fact, do you have any guarantee that all along the supply chain everyone is an expert on that exact piece of equipment or could answer a basic question on it?
2) No, I deal with adults. Adults who are capable of making their own decisions based on their own circumstance. Was the customer extended this service on their previous choice of equipment? Obviously not, we hear some tragic tales of unsuitable equipment.
3) The contract is for the supply of goods, much past that we can't dictate any terms. How do we differ from any seller of any other goods and services in that respect? Even licensed equipment doesn't always carry those terms.
4) Not by recommendation no, but ultimately there are other outlets and if someone wants a prong collar but we refuse to sell one they can easily just go and buy one elsewhere.
Ah, small dogs. Definitely. Small dogs aren't any less prone to pulling on the lead, the main difference is they're not hard to hold back like, say, a neapolitan mastiff. Owners don't always associate the potential damage to the dog unless it physically affects them first, like an aching shoulder or elbow that a big dog could cause. A small dog putting all its small weight and small pull into a small collar will crush its small windpipe just the same as a big dog. So a prong collar is equally suitable, partly as protection to the dog.
C'mon, lets have it, wicked irresponsible seller of death devices, obviously don't love dogs, not a care in the world about the harm being caused, should be flogged....etc etc?