Crufts is the only dog show in the country , that you have to stay till the end of the day (4pm) every other dog show is run on the basis, that once your dog has shown (unless you win) you can take it home.

So the "spending hrs at show" is not applicable, many many people once done go home, specially if they have a dog as you described,

Of couse you will see the odd stressed dog, as you would in all walks of doggy life, but walk around any show and you will see most dogs could be furthest from stressed as they can get, most are asleep on benches /by the owners side,

I did flyball a lot in the early days and I would agree now that it may not be the best thing for the dogs. However they DO love doing it, no doubts about that.

I am of the mind that it (and agilty) were the reasons one of my dogs ended up as what the vet called a 'complete skeletal wreck'. I like to think that had he had the choice it is what he would have chosen to do but landing on the box at that angle and shoving it a foot back while the loader is standing on it can't be good for the shoulders.

Everything we do with our dogs is (or should be) a learning curve and flyball for me is out---as would agility be with a heavier breed. I'd do it for fun but not the amount of intensive training that is often the norm in order to do well.

In the same way I won't do much hind leg work in HTM. Handstands have been banned by Crufts this year (no one in the UK, except Richard once, has used them but internationally they do a lot more). Some of the jumps and landings I don't like on hard ground but I have made my concerns known.

Not exactly OT as it links with Crufts activities---do you want it in another thread Pidge? Crufts nowadays is about so much more than showing.

rune

i must admit, i do find the whole concept of possessing the desire to walk around a ring to show off ones form a bit of a strange hobby myself.....be it women, dogs, cats, etc.

now, if i was a dog and their was a dog version of lap dancing......

A good post

.................

But the bottom line is, you want a dog in the ring that oozes confidence and presence, if their hear this not in it, they wont do it, so no point is showing them, so depending on the owner, if they are small hobby exhibitors, they will just retire their dog from the ring , larger kennels may move the dog on to a pet home (no problem with that either)
.

I don't show my car off LOL!

As for baby shows---thats worse than dog shows IMO.

rune

Thanks---I suppose its not really worth the money if they aren't likely to do well.

rune

i must admit, i do find the whole concept of possessing the desire to walk around a ring to show off ones form a bit of a strange hobby myself.....be it women, dogs, cats, etc.

now, if i was a dog and their was a dog version of lap dancing......

Crufts - is anyone else NOT a fan?

Now for me that is a but like saying 'football anyone not a fan'..
I don't know the first thing about football, I don't have any interest in it at all so I leave it alone for those who do understand and appreciate the finer points of the sport. I don't critisise others for appreciating and understand something I don't.

Likewise Crufts or any other dog show. Many people just don't 'get' what it is all about and think it is just a parade of bored dogs .

It so much more than that if you are passionate about a breed . It's meeting up with fellow enthusiasts/learning about a breed/comparing dogs / finding out who is breeding what/looking at possible stud dogs (if you are a breeder)/looking around at the stalls for the latests goods and for many dogs and owners a jolly good day out.

In the days when I was involved with showing the dogs couldn't wait to get in the car and get to the shows. We never went to the big shows alone always two people and the dogs were never left on the benches unattended except for the briefest of moments when a fellow exhibitor would keep watch. The dogs were frequently walked around and loved sitting on the benches being admired and spoken to by the visiting public.

So to the detractors if you don't like it no one is asking you to ,leave it alone.

That said I have to say Crufts isn't my faviourite show ,to busy and 'hyped' for me mainly because it is the only dog show many of the general public are aware of. I much prefer the summer outdoor Championship shows.

bar the odd post, i havent read the thread, but how come people are getting upset about people posting why they arent fans if crufts on a thread called is 'anyone not a fan of crufts?'

Please get your facts straight and learn abit about what you are saying yourself. Eukanuba is Iams. They are one and the same and were involved in some horrific animal testing - force feeding dogs and removing muscle from them. They make me sick and yes I can say I have nothing to do with P&G at all, including Pringles before anyone asks!

Here, have a read - http://www.uncaged.co.uk/iams.htm

I'll await that apology now. You made some horrid accusations about me not knowing the facts. I have a crap memory and I didn't put enough research into 'proving' things to you at the start, but I know what I feel and knew I was right on this.



Why has no one answered this?



It's not an excuse. Are you saying I am not justified to express an opinion? Yes I didn't have enough time to get the facts ready to prove to people but the facts are right.



Why? My initial thought on this was purely ''I don't like Crufts because of the things I know about it, I wonder if anyone feels the same?'' What is wrong with that?



Please, see above. I think you'll find I was right.



About what?

Totally get this. In fact I'd love to go to a show with you and see if that would change my mind.



Absolutely agree with this (wish I'd put it better myself, although doubt it would have made a difference ;o)


I think it's more about what I WISH Crufts would be. A fun, informative show who take every step, no matter what the consequences to ensure that animal cruelty is eliminated and the right message is given out. It has a long way to go to get there imo.



I would love to!



See Sheree's post above. Seeing it from a different set of us (i.e. being bothered about the look of a dog as well as everything else) might make me more pro show.

I totally take your points on board & I'm aware that dogs that aren't happy at shows like Crufts, won't show to their best ability. So if those owners stop showing these dogs & don't force the dog to "get used to it", then fine.

But I wasn't just talking about the few minutes in the ring, I was talking about the dog's whole experience of being at Crufts, or any other large dog show, poss for a few hours, maybe the whole day? No doubt some dogs can enjoy the whole experience but other dogs may be thoroughly bored, or unhappy, or stressed, but come to light for those few minutes they are actually being shown. IMO that's not a good enough reason to have that dog at a dog show. It's not putting the dog's interests & welfare at heart, only subjecting it to hours of something it doesn't particularly enjoy, for the few minutes that it does enjoy.

I know that sometimes the alternative could be to leave the dog at home while the owner goes to the show & possibly being left on it's own would be even worse for some dogs. But if this were the case, then I wouldn't go myself, or if I had to go, I'd make sure the dog was being cared for by someone it likes.

As for doing other activities with dogs that they may not like, I agree this can happen in agilty, obedience, HWTM, even being walked on a lead for a dog that is used to it's freedom. So if this is the case, personally, I wouldn't do those activities with a dog. I try to do things with my dogs that they enjoy, as often as I can. I can't obviously do this 100% of the time (Wilma occasionally has to be on lead for her own safety ), but I'll do my best to minimise on lead times by driving somewhere she can be off lead.

I could, of course, do lots of on lead walking, using lots of pos reinforcement & quite probably she'd begin to get used to it, or even enjoy it, but I see no need to try to overcome her dislike of being on lead if I don't have to, & I can do lots of things with her that she'd rather do. There are plenty of things that dogs living with humans have to get used to anyway & that may not be their cup of tea, but they learn to put up with, or get used to those things. I don't want to then pile on more things for the dog to get used to or put up with, solely for my own enjoyment.

My point is that I've tried several different things with my dogs, to see what they prefer doing, I observe them closely, try to see what makes them happy & what makes them a bit bored, flat, stressed, unhappy etc. I maximise the time they spend doing what they enjoy (within reason & within the law) & minimise what they don't enjoy, whilst trying to ensure they stay physically & mentally healthy.

Others have already explained...its not whether someone likes Crufts (or anything else for that matter) or not, but the arguments for why they don't like it. Spouting incorrect facts (without checking or making it clear that the info may not be accurate) and offending other members by saying they were putting their dogs through torture.




As I said in another post, you are entitled to an opinion, but you can't expect anyone to respect it if it is based on mis-information.



It would have made a huge difference. I have no problem with anyone not liking Crufts (I've never been, may never go and I'm not overly bothered). It was your whole thoughtless attitude.

You spouted off a load of rubbish which you hadn't checked out but didn't even qualify what (e.g. by saying something like 'I believe this is the case').

You know that many members on here show, yet you jumped in with both feet effectively calling these members cruel and guilty of torturing their dogs.

Maybe it wasn't deliberate, but if it wasn't, it was very thoughtless. There are ways and means of querying and challenging things without immediately offending. Had you posted in a different way, I wouldn't have jumped on your case.




And I'm sure the show people have as well (certainly the ones I know).

Showing is not a 365 day a year event. There is plenty of time for the dogs and owners to do all sorts of other things.

I think that people think being a show dog mutually excludes these dogs from doing anything else? But that's just not the case. (well of course it may be the few cases who don't even take their dogs for a walk, but again you get the oddball in every walk of life)

Have you since read the whole thread?