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Tupacs2legs
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06-01-2011, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Yeah, its a shame we eat Beef, Lamb, Chicken etc... if we all ate cabbages and potatoes, and people were not allowed any pets, the Foxes could just do as they please all the time.
thats not what im saying Dawn ... but hey humans are allowed to
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Borderdawn
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06-01-2011, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
thats not what im saying Dawn ... but hey humans are allowed to
Of course we are. Thats why we work, pay taxes etc.... we can and do. We do not have to tolerate the effects of animals on our lives, we control them in order for them to live in manageable numbers. They dont have the options we do Layla, they are animals. Sorry, cant be doing with the "humans think they rules the world" thing, we do.
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Tupacs2legs
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06-01-2011, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Of course we are. Thats why we work, pay taxes etc.... we can and do. We do not have to tolerate the effects of animals on our lives, we control them in order for them to live in manageable numbers. They dont have the options we do Layla, they are animals. Sorry, cant be doing with the "humans think they rules the world" thing, we do.
and we will destroy it too...nearly there!
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Borderdawn
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06-01-2011, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
and we will destroy it too...nearly there!
Well, that remains to be seen, I agree we haven't done some things to our best ability.
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tazer
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06-01-2011, 09:28 PM
*Shrugs* foxes are predators, they hunt, if given the option they'll killwhat's easiest, the old, the young, the sick and the injured. A 19 year old cat is certainly going to fit at least 1 of those catagorries, if the owners let the cat out, and it falls to predation, then that's the way it goes.

Likewise, humans are predators, and anyone who thinks millions of years of evolution, is going to be removed from an entire species because some of us have been playing 'civilized' for a few centuries at most, are sadly mistaken.

Ref the child being in the photo with the dead animal/s

I'd be more bothered if the child didn't want to be there, and was forced to. Believe it or not, some kids find dead stuff interesting...My lord, the most interesting thing on 1 particular school trip when I was about 9, was the skull of a fox that had been collected. The first question I asked was, where's the body?...they shouldn't have told me, as all I wanted to do after that was go for a look.

Ref hunting for sport.

We're also not the only species to kill for sport, we just don't judge other species so harshly for it.

Imo, its a reminder of what we are, and that is something we should seek to understand, not hide from.
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Borderdawn
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06-01-2011, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by tazer View Post
*Shrugs* foxes are predators, they hunt, if given the option they'll killwhat's easiest, the old, the young, the sick and the injured. A 19 year old cat is certainly going to fit at least 1 of those catagorries, if the owners let the cat out, and it falls to predation, then that's the way it goes.

Likewise, humans are predators, and anyone who thinks millions of years of evolution, is going to be removed from an entire species because some of us have been playing 'civilized' for a few centuries at most, are sadly mistaken.

Ref the child being in the photo with the dead animal/s

I'd be more bothered if the child didn't want to be there, and was forced to. Believe it or not, some kids find dead stuff interesting...My lord, the most interesting thing on 1 particular school trip when I was about 9, was the skull of a fox that had been collected. The first question I asked was, where's the body?...they shouldn't have told me, as all I wanted to do after that was go for a look.

Ref hunting for sport.

We're also not the only species to kill for sport, we just don't judge other species so harshly for it.

Imo, its a reminder of what we are, and that is something we should seek to understand, not hide from
.
Spot on.
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DevilDogz
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06-01-2011, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by tazer View Post
I'd be more bothered if the child didn't want to be there, and was forced to. Believe it or not, some kids find dead stuff interesting...My lord, the most interesting thing on 1 particular school trip when I was about 9, was the skull of a fox that had been collected. The first question I asked was, where's the body?...they shouldn't have told me, as all I wanted to do after that was go for a look.
Some kids do find it intresting, I love nothing more than sitting in on an autopsy, studying the body and the like - but thats so different this animal was killed for 'no - vaild' reason then hung for a picture - I find it odd that 'anyone' would pose next to a dead animal for a picture like its a trophey - ohh sorry it is, being the biggest fox and all


Ohh and foxes themselves kill for 'sport' their judged all the time for it - killed to
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tazer
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06-01-2011, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Yeah, its a shame we eat Beef, Lamb, Chicken etc... if we all ate cabbages and potatoes, and people were not allowed any pets, the Foxes could just do as they please all the time.
If we never stopped eating cabbages and potatoes etc, we'd not be having this discussion, never mind domesticating species. We'd still be running round in the wild, being the food of lions, leopards, wild dogs etc.

Without meaning offence to anyone, those who say meat isn't important to our diot, clearly don't know how pivetal it appears to have been to our evolution.
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spot
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06-01-2011, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers View Post
Folk with pigeons are not cat lovers. I have one further down the road. Someone moved in next door to him with 3 cats.....
And suppose they went out and killed the biggest cat they could find because it killed their pigeons (all in the name of controlling the cat population of course ) would they be excused. Oh and of course they would have to pose next to it.


Originally Posted by chaz View Post
Pets can be easy prey to wild animals, people should be more careful and put more in place to stop this happening IMO, and if a pet is taken by a Fox its sad, but thats life, animals get bigger, and maybe its human interfernce that caused this fox to get to this size, but if it is whose fault is that?

I do think though, that we are very lucky that we in britain don't have the big predators like lions etc and have to cope with them, because I don't think that we would cope , but I do think that people need to learn what dangers can face their pets, and change their actions so that they do not affect the wildlife so much, and should defiantly not feed them!!!
Equally wild life falls prey to pets!

Originally Posted by spockky boy View Post
And hunting for many people IS a way of life. Many people don't like fox hunting (which is fine by me), however many are ignorant about what goes on within a hunt on a hunting day. Many people I have met who aren't horsey as well as many that are (but haven't hunted) just assume people go madly raving through the countryside on a killing spree. This is not the case.

Most of the time foxes were or are not caught. IF a fox is being closed in by the hounds, it will be dispatched very quickly with a swift bite on its neck/jugluar from a fox. Death is almost imediate- unlike the way we slaugter many intensively farmed animals all over the world. To me fox hunting is no more barbaric that a pack of wolves killing a bear or a deer or a cat hunting mice/rats. However, as I said majority of the time foxes were not caught.


With regards to the OP- If people stopped feeding foxes evolution would not happen so quickly and this would not be such an issue. This is what happens when a variety of food is available- I mean take a look at Jurassic Park 3 and evolution kicks in
An illegal way of life!

Hardly a good means of controlling the population then is it?

Not sure that evolution has anything to do with a rather large fox and Im sure Jurassic park hasnt.


Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
erm strange view..they are hunting for food... fox pie anyone?
I thought it was rather weird contrasting fox hunting for so called 'control' purposes and a wild animal hunting for food.

Originally Posted by SLB View Post
Hmmm humans don't set wolves onto deers though do they? Thats nature - humans taking a gun out and dogs to kill a fox for sport isn't - I fail to see your thought process...
Well maybe they do - they are all ganging up on us poor ickle humans you now.

Originally Posted by boredinstroud View Post
@Spockky boy - I'm not sure evolution HAS happened so quickly. Someone has killed a big ol' fox - not big (tah dah) news in itself so to spice things up a bit we have a headline suggesting that Fox's are getting bigger. The mammal expert says that it is probably just an anomaly.
Exacctly

Originally Posted by DevilDogz View Post
Thats a very odd opinion - wolves out hunting, are doing so for food in order to survive - someone going out with a pack of dogs, killing foxes are not doing so in order to survive!
Oh but they are because otherwise the foxes will take over the world!!!
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tazer
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06-01-2011, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by DevilDogz View Post
Some kids do find it intresting, I love nothing more than sitting in on an autopsy, studying the body and the like - but thats so different this animal was killed for 'no - vaild' reason then hung for a picture - I find it odd that 'anyone' would pose next to a dead animal for a picture like its a trophey - ohh sorry it is, being the biggest fox and all


Ohh and foxes themselves kill for 'sport' their judged all the time for it - killed to
My point wasn't wether ornot the photo set up was odd, it was about if the child was happy doing it. As others seem to be saying it was wrong if a child was comfortable with that, which imo it isn't, its just different...you couldn't pay my mother to be in any photo, with anything dead, and I don't think she would've been any different as a child. But me both then and now, wouldn't be phased at all.

Foxes are judged most by those with something to lose, same with wolves in America, lions in Africa, tigers in Asia and just to finish off the A theme, dingos in Australia. The difference is,foxes are not endangered species here, so some being shot for killing chickens, is hardly going to have a detrimental effect on the species as a whole.

It still appears to be worse when we do it, esp to the no creature must die at the hand of man groups.

Those groups accept it as normal behaviour when displayed by foxes, cats, orkas etc, but move the goal posts when its their own species.

The fact of the matter is, we screwd up. We removed the apex predators from this island, and unless we bring them back, we've got to work out how best to do their job. That unfortunately means killing things, a task for which we are over qualified.
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