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rune
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27-11-2010, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by morganstar View Post
You can't show a dog docked after April 2007 where the public pay an entry fee, regardless of the breed and no amount of vets letters change this. We know it's the law but laws have been changed before now, this one doesnt make sense at all.
If you think you can change it then I have no problem with that.

I will of course do my best NOT to have it changed. That is what democracy is about.

rune
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morganstar
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27-11-2010, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
If you think you can change it then I have no problem with that.

I will of course do my best NOT to have it changed. That is what democracy is about.

rune
Exactly
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lozzibear
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27-11-2010, 10:56 PM
How can a dog be 'fit for function' if it has to have its tail cut off to work? That is what i dont understand.
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rune
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27-11-2010, 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
How can a dog be 'fit for function' if it has to have its tail cut off to work? That is what i dont understand.
It isn't!

rune
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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27-11-2010, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
...not gonna read the link... docking is barbaric and excuses like 'injured in working' are just that!!

you do not chop of a builders thumb incase its hit by a hammer!!
If you haven't read the link there's no point in you commenting, as a result you're completely off topic. This is not about docking in general, it's about legally docked working dogs (which therefore makes them the KCs definition ofbeing "fit for function") being excluded from Crufts because they're docked.

Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
errrmmmm it has a general anaesthetic, and painkillers doh!

and the breed in my exp as a vn that has its tail amputated the most......labs!! cos they wag them to much and split em! nowt to do with work!
Hmmmm, how many operations have you had? I've had several and each one has been very painful even with an anaesthetic and pain killers! Oh but it's ok to cut into an animal and remove some of it's organs because it makes life nice and easy for the human owner.

Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
Posting and dashing (as usual) but, I think the whole point is, for those breeds where docking is done to prevent injury when working, then they are unable to compete in the show ring at an equal level to those who don't work their dogs, but just show them and therefore don't dock. It's a great way to breed dogs where their ability is unknown; being a fan of working gundogs dogs, I like to see them doing what they were bred to do, and you can see they absolutely love it, it's in their blood. So why penalise those who are actually out there, proving the ability of their dogs, by preventing them from showing them as well at any level?

Tupac, I'd like to see you hold the same views when you're several miles up on a grouse moor, or in the back of a woodland, with a spaniel or other breed that's split it's tail wide open and is losing blood every time it wags the darn thing, because they still don't stop wagging. The end third is taken off with spaniels, I think it's the end two thirds on HPR's from memory, both are the parts that are more 'prone' to injury, and these dogs are left with a tail to wag.

Something I've queried in the past, and been shot down in flames as 'just having a go', is where the show dock for gundog breeds has come from in relation to this? It has honestly shocked me to see breeds docked to a stump, and bears no relation to the working dock. To me, the only reason for docking to that extreme is aesthetic, and not something I'd agree with at all.
Brilliant post. I have to say I have no problem in banning docking for cosmetic reasons, I always found it a bit bizarre to see show Spaniels docked right upto a few inches.

Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Good post, and bang on topic, the topic is not about whether or not you agree with docking, but the lunacy of not allowing docked dogs (after 07) to be shown at some shows!

No body here has yet to come up with a good reason to support the restriction.

Except the same old, " I dont agree , its barbaric"!
Indeed, people need to read the article properly otherwise what's the point in posting a reply.

Originally Posted by rune View Post
It is only going to happen if dogs work and show----very rarely does that happen.

I think it is illegal to sell the dog docked unless it is going to be worked?

rune
Not so, in the HPR breeds people who don't work their dogs are in the minority. The whole "docked and denied" campaign has been set up by people who legally dock their working dogs but continue to be excluded from shows like Crufts for no good reason. They are docked so they can be "fit for function", something the KC has been bleeting about for a long time now, yet they're excluded from certain shows for this very reason. Talk about ridiculous!
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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27-11-2010, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
How can a dog be 'fit for function' if it has to have its tail cut off to work? That is what i dont understand.
The tail is removed to allow the dog to be fit for function, however docking alone is not the topic up for discussion - please read the link in the OP.

If you want to discuss docking alone please start your own thread.
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Borderdawn
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28-11-2010, 08:39 AM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
How can a dog be 'fit for function' if it has to have its tail cut off to work? That is what i dont understand.
Some arent, hence the fact they were ALWAYS docked right from when they were created. The dogs are more than capable and fit to do the job, just the excessive length of its tail caused it injury.
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nickmcmechan
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28-11-2010, 08:41 AM
i still don't agree with it
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Lizzy23
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28-11-2010, 09:09 AM
Originally Posted by Spacecat View Post
When shopping for my springer pup, was difficult to find pups that hadn't been docked. It seems the norm, and the homes they're going to doesn't even come into the breeders equation imo. I was looking for a family dog, and felt strongly that I didn't need or want my pup to have a docked tail, but it took a while (and a fair few miles) to find one!
This is because they narrowed the people that would buy, the buyer that wants a pup to work doesn't want one with a full tail, and breeders were ending up with lots of pups unsold, we took 3 litters in after the ban, that hadn't sold
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Chris
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28-11-2010, 09:14 AM
I can't read the link - it won't open for me, but ............

Isn't the question, 'fit for whose function'?

I can never understand why people think it's wrong to breed to excess for cosmetics to satisfy those who prefer noses so squat that they impede breathing function, backs so long that spinal injuries occur, heads so flat that the brain has no room to grow and yet think it's ok to lop bits of a dog to satisfy their needs.

Taking it further, every human has a useless appendix that runs the risk of causing pain later in life and may need to be removed. The tail docking arguments could apply to this useless bit of kit so should people have to have their appendix removed during the first few days of life? I think not, neither do I believe that a dog should have bits removed 'just in case'
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