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Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
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Originally Posted by
JazzMan
I researched this subject pretty extensively when my dog used to do it and although he still does it on occasion, I now know exactly why.
There is no doubt that this quickly becomes a self reinforcing, learned behaviour, but there are two distinct causes that get the ball rolling in the first place. The first one is behavioural and occurs when a pup gets regularly chastised for making a mess, pup then learns to 'hide the evidence' as it were. Cure and prevention for this behaviour is obvious so I won't go into it. The second cause is always, beyond any shadow of a doubt, diet.
If the diet lacks a particular element, be it a mineral, a protein or even sufficient quantity, then the dog will actively seek out food sources that could possibly contain that missing element. And by food sources, I mean poo. If the dog can't get what he needs from his own poo, then he will try and get it from other animals. And so the cycle begins and in no time at all, you have a learned behaviour.
I know, for an absolute fact, that if I give my dog a certain type of food that he will be eating his poo the very next day. I know that if I give him that same food for a couple of days, he will be after everyone else's poo too.
After reading through the entire thread I think that although it has been mentioned several times, the possibility of the dogs diet having an influence on this behaviour has been largely dismissed, when in fact it should be the primary focus. Even more so if the dog is already on steroids, which will obviously have an effect on his appetite/digestion and should have been taken into account by the vet who prescribed them.
Yes, you can treat the symptoms and yes you could do that with a spray collar (ethics aside, different discussion) but, even if the treatment is successful, if you do not address the original cause, there is nothing to stop the behaviour re-occurring in the future. Like someone has already said, they used this method for a year and even then only with limited success, probably because they did not address the cause in the first place. I agree wholeheartedly that once every conceivable positive method has been tried that sometimes all we are left with are the less desirable options and while they are not ideal, I could sympathise with someone feeling they had to resort to such extremes when there was no other choice left. But I do not believe that that is the case in this particular instance. Until there has been a proper examination and period of testing/experimentation on the dogs diet, then not every option or resource has been explored.
Without an awful lot more information it is difficult to pin point the precise cause but if the dog came to me with behaviour as you describe, I would put him on chicken and rice (and a lot of rice, until he didn't want to eat any more, to address the hunger caused by the medication) and then use a combination of a muzzle and positive training to break the habit of eating. What exactly does the dog eat? How long has he eaten it for? What other foods has he eaten? How much/how often is he fed? Is he under/overweight? Why has he been prescribed such a powerful course of medication at such a young age?
Very sensible post
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As far as I'm aware, there's no research on links with coprophagia & diet & clearly there's a learned & self-rewarding element, but at the very least dietary causes should be explored (as Krlyr said several times too).
I only have anecdotal evidence that diet is involved but from the dogs I know that
started to eat poo later in life (not learned as a puppy) there were dietary/digestion causes in all cases. Two dogs were on medication (one on steroids) & three dogs were on fairly restricted diets for weight loss. In all 5 cases, the dogs started to eat other dogs poo but not their own. In 3 of these cases, the one on steroids stopped shortly after the steroids stopped & 2 of the dogs on restricted diets greatly reduced poo eating when they were given a more varied diet & restrictions were eased. The other 2 dogs, I don't know about as I don't see them anymore.
But I think whoever said that the more they do it, the more they are likely to, also has a point, which is why prevention & avoidance are important too.
On the use of aversives to prevent animals eating certain things, the only research I know is that done on rats & observations of wild animals. And, as far as I know, it's the only strong learning as a result of aversives, when the "punishment" is not administered immediately. Animals that eat things that make them very sick (so obviously not an immediate punishment), will very quickly learn not to eat that same thing again. This is an inborn survival strategy to prevent them eating poisonous substances ~ so if they don't die, they're just really ill. Possibly the act of vomiting provides the learning as to what made them sick in the first place?
It was this thought that made me suggest that tabasco might work with coprophagia ~ a strong taste aversive, but given immediately & no link to people. But I'm not for one minute suggesting that anyone tries to "cure" coprophagia by dosing the poo with poison
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