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Location: Glasgow, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 810
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Originally Posted by
Ramble
I wonder how the initial 'attacks' or 'warnings' were dealt with though? Were the dogs told off for it? If so...then that explains the silent attacks afterwards, as their natural urge to warn a dog off had been supressed..or even ignored?
Absolutely not! As I explained, the reason for the escalation was because the other dogs weren't taking any notice of the warning. The handler error in this case was in letting the dogs be exposed to 'bad mannered' dogs. It didn't take many instances of a warning getting ignored by the other dog for our girl to simply stop warning.
I've learned my lesson. If my dog growls at another dog just once I take action. That might be avoiding the dog/situation in future, or teaching my dog to let me handle the situation.
A lot of people say that it's fine to let a dog growl but for the reasons explained I think this can be a huge mistake. Your dog is growling because it's unhappy. So protect it rather than leave the poor dog to cope on it's own!!!! Even if your dog is behaving correctly you can't trust other dogs to respond in an appropriate way. And if your dog isn't good at doggy communication there's a very good chance of it getting into trouble.
Originally Posted by BenMcFuzzyLugs
Scarter - what you talk about with your girl is her building up her warnings - and if she didnt draw blood then she was STILL warning
Yes, this is absolutely true. It was never a real attack, but rather a very serious warning. Typically, I'd be working with my dog and her full attention would be on me. A lab (almost always labs) would come over and I'd see my little dogs eyes dart between me and the lab and then she'd just lunge, snarling and even chasing the lab a short distance. She'd then pin it down snarling. So there were signs if you were watching, but not signs or warnings to the dog that was about to be attacked. I'd call her off and she'd be her normal self instantly. But it worked - it got rid of the lab. It happened half a dozen times in total. My dog never drew blood but occasionally she had a tiny nick.
However, what would have happened had she done this to your Mia? Mia would fight back, and I think my girl would have stood her ground.
The problem with my girl was nothing really, but because of what happened to my friends dog I took it seriously. We consulted a behaviourist. I was quite taken aback by some of her recommendations and didn't take them on board at first. But she did tell us that a lot of problems are a result of well intentioned owners hell bent on socialising. I'm coming around to a lot of her ideas and suggestions. We no longer go to the busy dog-filled park that our dogs loved as puppies. Now that they're adults they simply don't want to be bumping into so many dogs. They've got each other for play and they really are happier just meeting a few dogs now and then. It took me a while to accept that as people bang on about the importance of socialisation so much. I think moderation is the key and if you have a problem then choose your dog's friends carefully.
Originally Posted by promethian
I tend to agree with you, and so does scarter. She writes
"Now of course, you can argue that there would have been subtle signs that we all missed. That's probably the case. But certainly not clear warnings.[TO HUMANS.]"
There were always signs if you were watching closely enough. But when I say no warning I mean the dog didn't growl a warning first or use body language to say "get lost" to the other dog. In fact the other dog was typically taken totally by surprise as they weren't even focussing on their attacker. The dog's intention was to get hold of the other dog (probably as a warning rather than with an intent to kill - but the dog's way of getting rid of the other dog was to physically attack it). If the other dog fought back then you had a big problem.
Originally Posted by BenMcfuzzylugs
I ment to say about the gang of dogs going for the ones that were showing signs of submissions
Could it not have been that some of the other dogs where showing some signs of their planned agression the 'submissive dogs' saw these signs and were trying to diffuse the situation by giving calming signals but the agressors were not appeased by them and attacked anyway
No, that doesn't really fit. A typical scenario would be that perhaps 8 - 10 dogs would be chilling out. Perhaps one playing fetch with it's owner, one chewing a stick, a couple wandering about. You get the picture. One of the 'victim' dogs that loved to play with the others would start a game of chase with one other dog. The other dogs would ignore. Then occasionally the dogs playing chase would get over excited and the timid dog would start demonstrating a bit of submissive behaviour. This would cause a couple of other dogs to instantly join in the chase. Others would stand around barking like kids in the playground shouting "Fight, fight" (my two were bad for doing this). Within seconds all the dogs that had previously been chilling out were picking on this one dog. Still just play I guess, but all focussed around this poor little timid dog. It was the dog's fear/submissiveness that seemed to provoke the pack behaviour.