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Gnasher
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04-06-2009, 01:01 PM

Can there ever be any justification for the use of e collars?

Can there ever be any justification for the use of e-collars?
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Gnasher
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04-06-2009, 01:11 PM
I shall answer my own question. Yes. And the situation I am referring to is this.

Many people may recall a Dog Whisperer episode where Cesar was worried that Daddy was going to be seriously injured or killed by a rattlesnake. There are over 150,000 fatal or very serious injuries to dogs and cats every year in the States due to venomous snakes. IMO, it is absolutely vital therefore that dogs are taught to avoid snakes at all costs.

Daddy, being a pit bull, a very tenacious breed, was very definitely going to end up dead at the hands of a rattlesnake, so CM taught him to give them a very wide berth with the use of an e-collar. Daddy very quickly learned to give the "guinea-pig" rattlesnake a very wide berth !

IMO the end justified the means. You may recall that Will Smith's wife, Jada, lost her beloved Rocco to a snake bite.
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Louise13
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04-06-2009, 01:18 PM
NO!

I am sure there would have been other ways to keep this dog away from snakes
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Jackie
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04-06-2009, 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
I shall answer my own question. Yes. And the situation I am referring to is this.

Many people may recall a Dog Whisperer episode where Cesar was worried that Daddy was going to be seriously injured or killed by a rattlesnake. There are over 150,000 fatal or very serious injuries to dogs and cats every year in the States due to venomous snakes. IMO, it is absolutely vital therefore that dogs are taught to avoid snakes at all costs.

Daddy, being a pit bull, a very tenacious breed, was very definitely going to end up dead at the hands of a rattlesnake, so CM taught him to give them a very wide berth with the use of an e-collar. Daddy very quickly learned to give the "guinea-pig" rattlesnake a very wide berth !

IMO the end justified the means. You may recall that Will Smith's wife, Jada, lost her beloved Rocco to a snake bite.
Considering we dont have any rattle snakes in the UK , and the fact that you could justify the use of an e.collar to teach the dog to stay away from them.

Then my answer is NO, there is no justification to using them in the UK at least!!
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Gnasher
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04-06-2009, 01:20 PM
How though? That would work quickly? I cannot remember the background to this, whether Daddy had had a near miss, whatever, but let us work from the premise that Daddy was going walkies in the scrubland around LA where snakes are rife the very next day, and that he had already had a very near miss.

What would you suggest Louise that would work as instantly as that e-collar did on Daddy. It was pretty impressive if you recall the episode - Cesar didn't have to blast the poor dog over and over, I think there was only a couple.
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Labman
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04-06-2009, 01:23 PM
I have never used an E-collar, and never expect to need one. But then I am more likely to have my dog at the mall than somewhere there may be rattlesnakes or other hazards to off lead dogs.

I freely admit having very little experience and training with off lead dogs. I don't claim to know everything. There may be a place for them in off lead work. They certainly are not a tool I think most pet owners would ever need.
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Gnasher
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04-06-2009, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Considering we dont have any rattle snakes in the UK , and the fact that you could justify the use of an e.collar to teach the dog to stay away from them.

Then my answer is NO, there is no justification to using them in the UK at least!!
I know we don't Jackbox. This is purely based on the case of CM and Daddy - who live in the States

Moving on from the US to here then, would I ever use an e-collar on Tai? I have to say not ... but IF there was something totally life threatening that I HAD to cure him of PDQ, then I would have to be honest and say yes. Could I personally press the button? I just don't know, I suppose I would have to if it was going to save his life.
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Borderdawn
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04-06-2009, 01:26 PM
Ive just said to you by pm and on another thread Nikki. It was cruel to use Daddy. That dog is very old and wont come into contact with Rattlesnakes, you asked how I knew this, well the dog is 14 and was 13 at that time and that was the first time! The dog was terrified and a muffled (edited) scream can be heard on the video. It was very wrong to do this, CM doesnt take his dogs walkies, he takes them "filmies" If he was helping somebody with their dogs, he should of used them, why didnt he? Isnt it those dogs he was supposed to be helping?

I also said to you I had much respect for CM, which is now waining considerably, I still agree with many of his principals, but the heavy handedness is plain to see when you actually look.
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Tassle
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04-06-2009, 01:37 PM
I think training methods other than E-collars can be used to teach dogs to stay away from anything....

Considering that many snake bits come from dogs accidently stepping on snakes sunning themselves (at least in this country)
These methods are not going to ensure that this does not happen - not a lot will sadly.

Kinder methods can be used to teach dogs to leave things alone, it doesn't have to be painful...and yes - you can get quick results.
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Reisu
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04-06-2009, 01:39 PM
I didn't realize Daddy was that old! Oh that just makes it even worse I didn't like that episode at all, it just seemed like a big shock collar promotion! Surely you could just train the dog to recall whenever it sees a snake, or something like that? I seem to remember something about a rattlesnake vaccination also, but it wasn't very effective or something...
In this country I can't see any justification for e-collars. I'd keep my dog onleash until the problem could be solved with positive methods.
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