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View Poll Results: Is CM improving as a TV trainer & offering more apt advice
Yes 45 52.33%
No 41 47.67%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Wysiwyg
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15-03-2009, 07:58 PM
I've seen the action, and it's not usually a kick as such (by the time it is seen on tv) - however each dog sure avoids it and usually cringes submissively indicating that the dog has already been made aware of how hard his kick could be behind the scenes.
My dog for instance would not care if I raised my leg near to her, nor if i pushed her...nor I expect would most other people's if they've not been abused etc...

It's just one of the things about his show that really annoys me. Ie the dogs have been pre conditioned to a leg movement that either hurts or that they associate with something that does...
pagan
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15-03-2009, 08:20 PM
Speaking as a trainer, I think all of us are always learning no matter how long you've been training.

The guys at dog borstal, victoria stillwell, cesar millan, jan fennel et al, are all at the mercy of the tv producers who want to condense hours of work into a 5 minute sound bite.

None of the multitude of programmes gives you the insight into the full training and it never provides you with all the tools you need to cure your own problems properly, this is never down to the trainer, but the production team.

All good trainers will tell you that advice should be individual to you and your dog and influenced by how you both learn and what you both feel comfortable doing. There are supporters and critics for all trainers - whether on tv or not! As long as the methods are not cruel or cause pain and suffering (in which case they should be banned) -everyone will always have their own preference.

Going back to the original point - overall I think his methods encourage people to have a healthy well fed happy dog that can interact sensibly and politely with people and other dogs which is something we should all aim for, but there have been particular cases for which his 'remedies' have raised some eyebrows.

I would say that until you have tried to solve these cases yourself you cannot know how you would approach such behaviour and the likelyhood is that he has exhausted many less forceful methods before employing these methods, but this would be the 'uniteresting' introduction that ended up on the cutting room floor.

Cesar has a lot to offer in the way of advise for general dog-ownership:
exercise, discipline, affection - all important factors to having a well balanced dog. how many of you have missed a days full exercise of your high energy dog and then spent the first half of the next walk regretting that, usually with aching shoulders!

I have now exhausted myself and will get quietly down off my soap box, quit preaching and hopefully avoid a hail of arrows from any of you who disagree with me lol!!
ajshep1984
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15-03-2009, 08:21 PM
I'd guess that I've watched about 20-30 of his shows and I've seen him give good advice on 1 occasion so no I don't think he's improved. What I will say is he hasn't got worse, simply because it's impossible.
Boxer Boy
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15-03-2009, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
I've seen the action, and it's not usually a kick as such (by the time it is seen on tv) - however each dog sure avoids it and usually cringes submissively indicating that the dog has already been made aware of how hard his kick could be behind the scenes.
..
I have never seen the dogs he's dealing with cringing submissively when corrected by him in this manner. In fact I am astounded by your claims, I shall certainly watch much closer in future.
Wysiwyg
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15-03-2009, 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by Boxer Boy View Post
I have never seen the dogs he's dealing with cringing submissively when corrected by him in this manner. In fact I am astounded by your claims, I shall certainly watch much closer in future.
If you watch with the sound off, and just watch the dogs, I find it helpful to get a clearer picture He has a very calming voice, whatever he's in the middle of.

This is a good link which explains why many of us feel the way we do...

http://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm

Wys
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youngstevie
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15-03-2009, 09:10 PM
Well I voted No.

But then I hardly watch him, but because my FS was watching it I did the other day and have to say I cringed at the way he treated the Pitbull.

Whilst I could see why the dog was muzzled....for the protection of people......I do not like to see a dog that puts his tails right underneath it's belly when someone approaches, and that is what this dog did when CM approached. Also I am not really in favour of the slide kick that was being used. But then call me mad.....I have never raised a hand or foot to any dog I have owned, and hopefully would never do so.
Harry21
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15-03-2009, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by BigV View Post
I always enjoy dog whisperer on SKY....... I think Ceasar generally does a good job at correcting unwanted behaviour, especially with the aggressive dogs.

I'm not 100% convinced his methods are always best for more timid / shy dogs, but ultimately I don't believe he does the dogs and damage, physically or emotionally.

As for his kicking / hitting of the dogs...... well in my opinion anyone who objectively watches the show can see it is not causing physical pain, it is more an attention grabber to snap the dog out of its current mindset.

OK you wouldn't poke or prod a work mate or child if they weren't paying you attention, but we ARE talking about a DOG here not a human.

Oh, and from my personal experience...... we recently got a rescue puppy, 6 months old, and our older dog does gently nip the puppy to tell her off when she is misbehaving or being too boisterous........ and the puppy generally stops doing whatever she was doing, no harm done.


My only major complaint would be the way the show is edited to make everything look so easy and so instant - but then again all reality programs are like that really.
BINGO! People often say he hits/kicks dogs and chokes them with the slip leads or some BS etc.

I'd expect a lot of trainers or behaviourists to attack his methods since his success, so no suprise there.
ajshep1984
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15-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Harry21 View Post
BINGO! People often say he hits/kicks dogs and chokes them with the slip leads or some BS etc.
People say it because he does it, if you think otherwise you must be watching a different show to me.
Harry21
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15-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Thanks, we are in the dark ages though with no Sky just now only Freeview, but maybe another time!

Interesting you say he may be improving his methods. I wonder why that may be..?

He's had a bit of slating recently from
one particular US news station/reporter as making time bombs.

http://www.komonews.com/home/video/3...?video=pop&t=a

Shows CM trying to dominate an aggressive dog with a shock collar who redirects and bites his owner. Gawd.

I think the tide may be turning a bit - maybe he's been told, or else is trying to learn, more about how other professionals work with dogs. After all Victoria Stilwell changed her methods a fair bit from her first to her latest series.




Wys
x
Am I the only one who don't like this whole softly softly happyness and sunshine approach to dog training?

Did you hear that woman dog trainer say about traing through being rewarded or bribed with food to get results. Aposed to CM expecting it by being the leader.

I think most people forget to treat dogs as dogs, and not human.
ClaireandDaisy
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15-03-2009, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Harry21 View Post
Am I the only one who don't like this whole softly softly happyness and sunshine approach to dog training?
oh I do hope so
Did you hear that woman dog trainer say about traing through being rewarded or bribed with food to get results. Aposed to CM expecting it by being the leader.
I`ve read a lot of books, been to a lot of trainers and spent many many years learning about dogs. I reward when they do right and prevent them doing what I don`t want. It`s not rocket science or macho posturing.
I think most people forget to treat dogs as dogs, and not human.
I think that`s extremely arrogant. I assume you mean us (by most people?)
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