When foxes go into a killing frenzy it is not a choice , they don't think " I'm going to kill all the ones I don't want to eat just to be horrible "
I have had guinea pigs all my life and I live in an area where there are a lot of foxes and I have never had one killed by a fox because they were put away securely at night .
When humans go on a killing frenzy eg shooting pheasants it is a choice . Most of the time the humans don't even want to eat the things they shoot

That's my point exactly

Interesting though that there have been fox footprints in the snow right in front of the dogs kennels when they are chained for the night I agree though that the dogs probably do deter the foxes ... although if they were determined to get our chickens, they could get into the run from the 8 foot fence that backs on to the hill - no dogs there. I guess the fact I live on a keepered estate probably also plays a part.

I don't think I said that foxes never take lambs did I? I apologise if that is the way it came across, as I know they can and do take lambs. However, in all the years my hubby has been shepherding in different parts of the Lake District and rural Scotland (and he lambs most of his sheep on the hill), he has only really had a fox problem in one area. This was basically because there was nothing else for the fox to eat. He allowed for foxes to take one or two, but when more than that were taken, he and his boss (who was skilled with a gun) waited for the particular fox who was being a pest and shot him. That kind of control I have no problem with.

Totally agree that trapping, snaring, gassing and poisoning are totally inhumane. I can't stand any of those methods I would still prefer to see skilled marksmen employed purely for taking out any fox who is being a consistent pest.

Regarding foxes going on a killing frenzy - all vulpines will kill in this manner when faced with what is a completely unnatural situation for them - loads of birds, rabbits, etc in one place such as a coop or pen. It does not make them evil - it is just a natural behaviour. I wonder how many dogs would also go on the same kind of frenzy if they got in an enclosure full of rabbits or chickens.

Studies have been made on the red fox in this country, and it was found that many foxes do cache food in different places to come back to later.

I would recommend reading "Running with the Fox" by David Macdonald to anyone (pro or anti foxes) who is interested in fox behaviour.

What a ridiculous statement!

Take a look at the dog at your feet, do you own it, or just share your house with it??

Thats not true Kirsty. It is perfectly natural to a Fox to kill everything it finds, including all members of a nest it may find, the entire egg stash of a Bird etc.. all memebers of any small mammal family etc.. They NEVER just take one, their NATURE is to kill as much as they can. A coop full of chickens isnt unnatural to a Fox at all, if it was it wouldnt behave in a natural way whilst in there, they dont have conscious thinking, they kill because thats what they do.

Since Foot and Mouth, the land behind the kennels as been changed from livestock to arable. We now have Fox mess in the dog exercising paddock and inside the small gravel area right outside TWO kennel blocks! They also come into the orchard and back garden, they never used to. The Foxes are not controlled like they were, now we are seeing mange ridden animals behaving very unatural and in a very sorry state, we even see them scrounging during the day. The fact they are not controlled properly here now has meant they are suffering terribly for it, long drawn out deaths, starving and full of mange. We deal with the ones that cause us the most problems, but the poor things have hit hard times with the ban and in this case also with Foot and Mouth meaning the farmer changing from livestock to crop.

That is an admirable sentiment, but it does rather overlook the fact that we humans are largely to blame for their endangered status, in the first place.

Snorri

In my statement, I didn't mean to say they would only take one - I just meant the *frenzy* comes into it when faced with a number of their prey animals in one enclosed place. I do agree the fox will also take all eggs in a nest, or kill all members in a nest etc. I do believe this is to cache for later though. As it is natural behaviour for the fox to kill in this way though, can he be blamed for it? I do understand the need, in certain cases, for foxes to be controlled - especially in the scenario you mention in your other post, where foxes are riddled with mange etc, but I just cannot agree with persecution to extinction

Kirsty NOBODY has ever said the Fox is to blame, but they must be controlled, if they were destroying your livlihood you wouldnt think twice, but you dont have a problem and Im pleased for you. You know yourself if something in your line of work is not working correctly or is broken, you fix it, if the dog doesnt do its job you replace it, if the Fox kills your chickens or lambs you shoot it!