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Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
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Originally Posted by
Louise13
Well given that Mals & Sibse are vrey similar in their traits..I would think that a cross between 2 dogs and only ONE GSD that its going to have a higher amount of Sibe and Mal than the GSD??
Don't you think??
Two high prey driven dogs and one not so much...Definately a higher percentage of prey drive in that mix
It has to be remembered also that the origins were unknown strays which may or may not have wolf in them, [ given they came from a country where hybrids are very common and they were strays so no actual ancestry known ], and there are recent hybrids around depending on which name they are given among the main unrecognised breeds of the same origins so its not even as simple as a case of two high drive sledding type breeds and Alsatian, there are many unknowns there too, any of which can cause conflicts of inherited traits within the dog, [ any dog that is where mixes are involved in recent ancestry be it 20 years ago for breed formulation or a purebred getting at Mrs Miggins different breed dog down the road ].
I have joked flippantly in the past about my BC x JRT, that with her parentage she could theoretically flush rabbits, [ JRT ], then herd them into a pen, [ BC ], but more seriously re topic at hand, any of the traits of her parentage could be active at any one time, she like any dog will be born with certain instincts - some dogs utilise them, some don`t, but they are there and could come to the fore at any time, so not everything is as learned a behaviour as it may seem, for many dogs the behaviour was always in there it, some get an instinctive trigger go off early, some late, some never, but in every breed or mix every owner should be aware that whatever their breeds inherited traits are, they can become active at any time - and to punish a dog for the traits they were born with, [ which humans must take responsibility for breeding in intensively at some time when it comes down to it ], is just plain wrong.
The main factor though which is still being ignored is that no dog which does not have a right to be around livestock should be off lead in their vicinity, so it should not be an issue.
Also, when a dog gets loose there is no way to predict how they would behave around sheep as the circumstances are just not the same as when on a walk with their owner, anything could cause a dog which is usually brilliant around to stock to end up chasing them, be it panic of being without their human to give guidance, to going through a hedge and coming face to face with a ram and being spooked into self preservation by trying to see it off.
As a shock collar is required to be on the dog and zapping done at a crucial timing every time, the running off scenario is a no go anyway, the first moment of looking toward a sheep with no one there to zap effectively gives the dog the go ahead to chase because they are not being `told` not to on that occasion.
Using it to train a `stay close` around livestock as per the example given previously, frankly that is also ineffective when a dog has done a runner because there is no one present to `stay close` to at the time so it`s a completely pointless thing to train as a way to keep a dog from chasing stock for in case the dog escapes the garden etc.
And as all dog owners have a legal duty to keep their dogs on lead in the vicinity of livestock the `on lead for the rest of the dogs life is cruel` aspect is a misnomer, all dogs should be on lead near stock, and if that means having to go further afield, [ scuse the pun ], for the dog to have off lead exercise then that is a duty the handler must accept.
Though when I lived in Yorkshire in a heavily stock inhabited area I never had a problem finding somewhere with no stock around, no area in the country is wall to wall sheep, there is always somewhere available even if its a chore for an owner to have to walk a bit further or drive somewhere to give the dog off lead exercise.
All that said, I can`t help but wonder if some are thinking a long line means just a flexi-lead or a very short line only a few feet longer than a normal lead ?
I have one which I use for recall training and for my tripod, [who`s exercise has to be carefully managed due to a lactic acid problem ], which enables a dog to have as much running area as a football field and does not make a dog feel restricted *at all* - also its not like lunging a horse with the handler stood in the middle and the dog only able to go in small circles which is the way I get the feeling some think it a line is used.
How many people let a dog off lead without using voice to keep them within a limited distance - an invisible long line in other words - so anyone who feels a dog which is on a decent long line is missing out on anything could perhaps use a bit of perspective and understand that we all use a long line of some sort be it attached to the dog or a vocal `lead`...