register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
DanishPastry
Dogsey Senior
DanishPastry is offline  
Location: Herts.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 428
Female 
 
07-06-2008, 04:05 PM
thats the difference good training makes....in referance to the professionally trainined (bred?) protection/guard GSD's mentioned last few post. never thought in terms of wuss adjectives myself.
just ive worked with hundreds of GSD's in rescue, 99% of them were just gob****es whom the average visitor to our kennels was scared to walk past and labelled aggressive and/or dominant. when they were far from it and pretty much pussycats if you knew them - with the other dogs and staff and volunteers. our average JRT was way more dominant (for want of a better word) and usually rang rings around our average GSD.

btw - this is krusewalker - just noticed danish pastry has left her log in.
Reply With Quote
JoedeeUK
Dogsey Veteran
JoedeeUK is offline  
Location: God's Own County
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,584
Female 
 
07-06-2008, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
I think the whole dominance issue is very misunderstood. I have seen several posts here alone, that explain away examples of dominance, which are in fact not dominance at all !
IMHO many of those people who claim that only certain breeds are "dominant" breeds(ie dominant over other dogs)have a belief that dogs alpha roll each other.

My dog's guarding would have been to go into protection mode & go head first to take out the leader of the attacking group. However he didn't do this he simply stood, raised his lips & took one pace forward. My other dogs also all stood up after sitting to have their leads on. I could feel the tesnion in their bodies through the leads, but they knew to do nothing whilst they were on lead.

One of the main differences between Mals & Working GSDs is that whilst they both have very high prey drive, most Mals switch off their conditioning to obey once in pursuit, a badly trained Working GSD is just the same, which is why they have to be educated from day one. Neither make good first time dogs for new owners
Reply With Quote
JoedeeUK
Dogsey Veteran
JoedeeUK is offline  
Location: God's Own County
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,584
Female 
 
07-06-2008, 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by DanishPastry View Post
thats the difference good training makes....in referance to the professionally trainined (bred?) protection/guard GSD's mentioned last few post. never thought in terms of wuss adjectives myself.
just ive worked with hundreds of GSD's in rescue, 99% of them were just gob****es whom the average visitor to our kennels was scared to walk past and labelled aggressive and/or dominant. when they were far from it and pretty much pussycats if you knew them - with the other dogs and staff and volunteers. our average JRT was way more dominant (for want of a better word) and usually rang rings around our average GSD.

btw - this is krusewalker - just noticed danish pastry has left her log in.
Most GSDs that end in rescue are poorly bred untrained dogs(the reason they are in rescue)& nothing like a well bred & trained dog. I've been involved in rescue GSDs for most of my life & TBH the type of dog that goes into rescue hasn't changed over the years, the colours have(so many"white"ones nowadays)but little else.
Reply With Quote
Malady
Dogsey Veteran
Malady is offline  
Location: Here !
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,681
Female 
 
07-06-2008, 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
IMHO many of those people who claim that only certain breeds are "dominant" breeds(ie dominant over other dogs)have a belief that dogs alpha roll each other.

Whilst I do think that only 'some' breeds have dominant pack orientation instincts as a breed trait, I also said earlier in a post that dominant behaviour has manifested itself in many dogs of many breeds, the two elements differ

My dog's guarding would have been to go into protection mode & go head first to take out the leader of the attacking group. However he didn't do this he simply stood, raised his lips & took one pace forward. My other dogs also all stood up after sitting to have their leads on. I could feel the tesnion in their bodies through the leads, but they knew to do nothing whilst they were on lead.

One of the main differences between Mals & Working GSDs is that whilst they both have very high prey drive, most Mals switch off their conditioning to obey once in pursuit, a badly trained Working GSD is just the same, which is why they have to be educated from day one. Neither make good first time dogs for new owners
Totally agree, I wouldn't recommend either as first time dogs
Reply With Quote
Krusewalker
Dogsey Veteran
Krusewalker is offline  
Location: dullsville
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,241
Male 
 
07-06-2008, 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
Most GSDs that end in rescue are poorly bred untrained dogs(the reason they are in rescue)& nothing like a well bred & trained dog. I've been involved in rescue GSDs for most of my life & TBH the type of dog that goes into rescue hasn't changed over the years, the colours have(so many"white"ones nowadays)but little else.
totally........................
Reply With Quote
Patch
Dogsey Veteran
Patch is offline  
Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
Female 
 
07-06-2008, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Steve Wishart View Post
Fancy PM'ing them to me sarah, they were lost amongst the posts I haven't read....?
Its easiest usually to go to links as and when they are posted rather than ignore them when people have taken the trouble to post them in the first place.

Post 20

Originally Posted by Evie View Post
We'll just agree to disagree on this one, Steve.
You may find these of interest;
http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html
http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html

Post 40

Originally Posted by Sarah27 View Post
Steve, us raw feeders are very passionate about what we feed our dogs. Here's a couple of links for you to have a look at:

http://rawlearning.com/

http://rawfeddogs.net/

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/

It's best to research as many different sources as possible before forming an opinion. That's what I was taught at uni anyway. No one is arguing for the sake of it, just sharing our experience of feeding.
Post 47

Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
For everyone asking proofs - I cant totaly give that but I used this site
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
to work out the nutrient content in many of the foods I am feeding raw and I compared that to the RDA's that pet food companies use for dogs
I found that what I am feeding meets or exceeds the RDA's
Although that site is not totaly comprehensive -- some foods dont have all vitamins listed and it is american so I had to be inventive with the cuts of meat
also I compared it to the premium dry food I was feeding and I am exceeding the nutrient content there too

dunno how that goes with proof but it was as good as I could get
There is also a dedicated section on Raw feeding within the forum

HERE

Plenty there to give you food for thought
[ and the worst pun of the year award goes to.... ]

When trying to find past posts on a thread, there is a handy function to help. At the top of a thread to the right,[ under the page numbers ], you will see :

"Search this Thread" "Rate Thread"

Click on the small triangle next to Search Thread, type in the posters name or key word, then click Go, and it will find you the relevant posts. Its a lot quicker to do that than ask people to pm you and then wait for them to see it and respond.
HTH
Reply With Quote
Patch
Dogsey Veteran
Patch is offline  
Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
Female 
 
07-06-2008, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
Try living with a pack of Malamutes, then see 'why' they do what they do.

Sorry, but again, everything you say is only 'your' experience and your opinion, and as you don't live with a dominant breed as a pack, you dont see how they behave around humans and how their adaptation mechanisms work with humans. It's all good saying dogs know they are not humans, and they know humans are not dogs......... I agree, but that does not mean to say they do not adapt their own instincts to deal with things, in a similar way to with dogs in their pack !

Watching a few dogs for a few hours, or hearing of people's experiences, can never fully explain how they really behave on a daily basis, within their normal environment.

To completely dismiss the theory when you have no 'living' experience of it, is somewhat blinkered IMO and also rather insulting to those who DO live with it, put up with it, and deal with it on a daily basis. That's like saying we are imagining things


The problem here is that those living with dogs which do have strong pack traits are causing one or two to believe the same is the case for all dogs - it is not the case though, and is why such sweeping theories should not be applied to all dogs in all situations.
My six do not have a single heirachy structure, it is fluid, they have strengths and weaknesses in different area`s and their interaction reflects those in whatever the situation and place at that time and changes between them in the next situation / place and so on, and that is often more the case than one set heirachy and even then its not really set given that a new dog coming in changes the dynamics, a dog passing away changes the dynamics, ages over time change the dynamics, even moving house can change the dynamics, so what seems a `set` heirachy can still change at any time for any reason hence there is still some degree of fluidity

I think a lot of people fall foul of trying to enforce a heirachy which is`nt what the dogs would naturally be comfortable with ie Fido was here first so he must be boss over the new dog` but Fido might not be willing or able to take that roll and then the human has created issues which often would never arise had they not interfered

In other words, the humans perceptions of pack order are often not in harmony with the dogs preferences of pack order,[ when there is one ], between themselves.
Reply With Quote
Steve Wishart
Dogsey Junior
Steve Wishart is offline  
Location: Surrey, UK
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 81
Male 
 
07-06-2008, 09:04 PM
Yeah, you're right patch, but sadly I ignored most of the off topic posts that were just trying to cause arguments, and as such, those posts got lost amongst them.

Perhaps if things weren't discussed in such condescending ways, they wouldn't have been overlooked.

Ta for the links anyway.

Oh and for the record, the post above mine is your opinion, so whilst on the subject of criticising malady's 'sweeping' posts, perhaps you could also put a note in your posts about them being your opinions based on your experience, just so that the average dog owner reading these forums doesn't make the mistake of taking what you say as gospel whilst putting someone down over their own take on things.

Just a thought matey
Reply With Quote
Patch
Dogsey Veteran
Patch is offline  
Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
Female 
 
07-06-2008, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by Steve Wishart View Post
Hey Ben Mcfuzzy, seeing as most of those posts were deviating from the topic and very pedantically picking apart everything I said, then sorry but I just can't be bothered reading them. So, tough, I don't have to read them
What did you say about you having come here to learn ?
Ho hum....

Good post malady, too many people on these forums assume that their own experience is more important than everyone else's. Repped you for it

And that is exactly what you have been doing...

Well, your experiences and the ones on generic correspondence course papers anyway.

At least the experience others are offering are from actual hands on work with a multitude of dogs with a multitude of problems and involve actually understanding the dogs they are working with.

Here`s one for you : Dog is being defiant, won`t listen, has tantrums, has difficulty learning anything new, has compulsive repetitive behaviours which are unacceptable, tries to appear dominant and confident but its all bravado as the dog does`nt have the wherewithall to back up the posturing signals the dog is giving off to other dogs, so ends up feeling cornered and overwhelmed, and displays defensive aggression as a result.

How would you turn this hypothetical dog around

Reply With Quote
Malady
Dogsey Veteran
Malady is offline  
Location: Here !
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,681
Female 
 
07-06-2008, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
The problem here is that those living with dogs which do have strong pack traits are causing one or two to believe the same is the case for all dogs - it is not the case though, and is why such sweeping theories should not be applied to all dogs in all situations.

Not once have I said that this thoery applies to all dogs in all situations In fact I said quite the opposite, I said that only a few breeds have this trait, although 'some' other dogs have manifested the same or similar behaviour, please read my previous posts.

I never made any sweeping statements whatsoever


My six do not have a single heirachy structure, it is fluid, they have strengths and weaknesses in different area`s and their interaction reflects those in whatever the situation and place at that time and changes between them in the next situation / place and so on, and that is often more the case than one set heirachy and even then its not really set given that a new dog coming in changes the dynamics, a dog passing away changes the dynamics, ages over time change the dynamics, even moving house can change the dynamics, so what seems a `set` heirachy can still change at any time for any reason hence there is still some degree of fluidity

As is often the case in a multi dog household

I think a lot of people fall foul of trying to enforce a heirachy which is`nt what the dogs would naturally be comfortable with ie Fido was here first so he must be boss over the new dog` but Fido might not be willing or able to take that roll and then the human has created issues which often would never arise had they not interfered

I agree, which is why the hierarchy between my dogs is something they have sorted out themselves and are happy with

In other words, the humans perceptions of pack order are often not in harmony with the dogs preferences of pack order,[ when there is one ], between themselves.
Agree again, it's not something to be messed around with at all, again something I feel is very misunderstood by people
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 12 of 18 « First < 2 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 > Last »


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 


© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top