i dont actually compete in agility, but i do own collies! look at the kelpies at the mo , & the BSDs, all fast & competitive.

How can a sport be Too Competive? Some people are competive & some arent, It sounds tbh that its sour grapes because you arent winning anymore,

If [people choose to run alot of collies thats up to them.Its their life, dogs & money, i think suggesting peoples dogs are mere robots for winning is really quite nasty

Sadly like in all competitive activities there are pot hunters for whom the winning is all that counts, and yes there are a tiny minority who re-home dogs which are retired or not `good enough` but that sort are looked down on with the disdain they deserve
The new rules do imo cause exactly what you feel, and I fought against the rules long and hard to no avail
Unfortunately it quickly became more than apparent that a lot who voted the rules in did`nt understand what they were voting for...

Strange, [ not....], that the ones in upper levels who voted for the changes are not the ones badly affected as newer handlers are or those with dogs, [ of any breed or mix], which may struggle to get the points needed to move up to the levels which frankly usually have courses far better suited to a slower/steadier dog, especially as they are more interesting, exciting, and about handler skill far more than having a dog that`s really fast on a straight up and down course.

So yes I agree completely with fluffybunnyfeet on those observations, and yes there are people who get Collies purely because they think it will give them a better chance of progressing than their previous agility dog which may not be of a build suited to speed with the twisty turny capabilities of so many collies.
Sadly it can be a big let down to them if their new collie is`nt agility minded or not as easy to train as they thought, or any other reason that they don`t get wins with what they might consider `the right breed for agility`.

Me personally, I teach my students that the only `win` that matters is the one they have with their dog and themselves working as a team having a good time together and to enjoy each and every run as something special to them, and if they happen to get a clear or a place, that is a lovely bonus, not the main aim.

I also respect the people who stick with their beloved breeds knowing in advance that their breed might not be quick enough or agile enough to `win win win`, and extreme respect for the handlers who take home a rescue dog especially those which may have had problems but by dedication the handlers have given the dogs not just a new life but have brought them on enough that what may have been a wrecked shell of a dog can walk confidently into a ring at a massive show and have a darned good happy time, with their abusive pasts or fears left firmly behind them, or a pup which has`nt been `bred for agility` - when they do well - not just by getting rosies but by putting in the effort and patience and learning to do lovely runs as a team - they are the real achievers in my eyes, not the ones who buy dogs they are hoping come genetically `pre-programmed` to give them a head start.

But then I don`t believe anyone should ever get a dog as an `agility prospect`, only as a companion they want to love and nurture and if that dog takes a liking to any hobby activity, that`s great.


My views and myself as a person have been absolutely shredded by some people in agility, because of my attitude to the rules especially - the ones doing the shredding of course being safely on their `I`m alright, I don` have to do the monotonous points gaining slog that the new or `lesser` handlers have to do` pedestal.

If that`s what makes them feel they have achieved something better than the people who try their very best time after time and still go home with a big smile because their dog had a lovely time regardless of getting eliminated in every class, well I know which are the real Losers...

That type really are the very small minority though so don`t worry about them, just concentrate on being the best you can be for your own doglet because that`s all that matters

Sadly its true though, there are some like that

I recently watched a video of a 5 month old collie already training to what I consider an obsessive level, and a ten week old pup already weaving - I found those vids to be very sad reflections on their owners.

A few years ago I did have two handlers come to the club I used to be with who were put in one of my classes but after the first session I refused to train them - their attitude was dire toward their dogs, their was no joy in the dogs` eyes, they were doing what they were being made to do imo. The dogs were good, yes, but there was no happiness about it for those dogs and the handlers refused point blank to improve their attitudes - they would`nt even praise the dogs for doing things well, as far as they were concerned the dogs `owed` it to them for getting fed and being provided with somewhere to sleep.
When I told the other trainer I was not prepared to work with them because they had made their dogs into robots he said he would work with them - I think that lasted a couple of weeks.

People like that are the teeniest minority but they do exist

I must hang around with the right crowd I've never come across this sort of thing, but then we've only been to a few shows, but when we had our clear round in agility at the weekend, those shouting 'yes' the loudest and were the most supportive, owned a Lurcher, Dalmations and Belgium Shepherds, also everyone I know (apart from my mother ) is so full of encouragement, and as pleased for us as if it had been their own dog

Daisy and I potter round the agility course one obstacle at a time! Occasionally a keen trainer tries to give us tips and I just point out that I`m working on her control (in actual fact I don`t do running) We have a jolly nice time although I wouldn`t dream of entering a competition

Good for you - its all about doing what you and your dog are happy with

I have to admit I was sad that Ben will just measure into large because that means he will be running with dogs who do 3 strides for every 1 of his and that will make us have to work at least twice as hard to get any wins (I am competative but the 2nd he stops grinning and running to get to the training ground is the day we stop)
But now I see there is lots about personal bests too - I wanted a clear round - I got 3, so next thing to aim for is I would like him to be out at a distance from me a bit more
then I would like to mibby do a round faster than X dog
So I have plenty of chances to win

But even at the lowley level I am at now I see some nasty examples of overcompetativness
Dogs shoved and dragged by thier coller to a good start line position
Dragged out for the run then locked up in the car with no chance to interact with people or other dogs or just have a fun run around (just cos they have 6 dogs still have to have time to say 'well done')
And my biggest gripe is people who yell at their dogs for a mistake - espech cos it was most likely the owners fault

But i dont think a fast dog is the easy answer - a fast dog is so much harder to train because things go wrong so much faster
You need far more control cos you face a fraction the wrong way and its off over jumps you didnt want and eliminated
me n Ben only went clear cos I had time to think

I have to agree that every sport has pot hunters who want to win at all costs. Just remembering back to my horse owning days , there were always people with BSJA registered horses competing at all the local shows just to win. They could only do the open classes though , the honest ones anyway . The rest of us just had to make the best of our own horses , and winning a class was that bit more special.
I started going to agility classes last year with my Staffie. She proved to be very fast , accurate and absolutely loved it ! I had planned on competing with her this year. For me , every round would be an extension to her training , as it always was with my horses , usually young or inexperienced ones. I got a buzz out of just having a good day out. I didn't care whether I won or not. My horse having a good day was more important. It would be the same with my dog. Unfortunately , I had to give up agility training as I have developed osteoarthritis of my spine ! I also have a slipped disc at the moment so there's not really much I can do. Soon however , I plan to get a mobility scooter , and will need to re-train my dog to work alongside it. All going well , I'll get back into agility. If and when I do get to a comp with my dog , it will be special as I have so much to overcome before I even get there. When that day comes , I'll probably be emotional just going into the ring with my dog , against the odds set against me. Whether she gets a clear round or not isn't an issue , I love her just the same. Ok , there are always people in every part of life who are more competitive , and want to win everything all the time , but for me , the best kind of competition for anyone is to win against the challenges life sets you. And most of all , to enjoy taking part.

Cant wait to see you at your 1st comp!! I have seen vid of a lady in a wheelchair doing agility and it is so lovely to watch - not just what she has overcome but her handling is so much better than anything I could ever hope for
Because she cant just run with her dog they are so much better trained, more in control and such a great bond

I think the reason you may be finding more Border Collies in the agility is because they are such an active dog and it's one of the best ways to direct their energy. Although a lot of breeds are suited to agility some breeds, like the border collie, are a coiled spring that excel at it.

Thanks . Trust me , getting there will be a major achievement on its own. My dog is a real nutter. Have you ever met a Staffie with the brains of a collie and the speed of a greyhound ? .