If people aren't breeding with sound conformation in mind then this is when severe problems start to creep in and breeds stop looking like they are meant too. I have groomed a 20" CKC from a puppy farm, that's right 20" at the shoulder! That's pet breeding, I;ve yet to find a pet bred litter where the puppies are actually typical for their breed unless the mother has come from a show bred litter. People breed a litter from a pet and keep they one they think is the cutest and then breed from that and so on and in the end you lose breed type.
There was a fox fur farm owner who decided to breed only from the foxes that were the calmest and most easiest to manage, he achieved his goal but lost all type, the foxes ended up with different coat types, curly tails, drop ears but were very easy to handle! The same happened with Guide Dogs for the Blind, they bred for temperament first and lost on the health, bred for health and lost on the temperament so it really is a matter of all round good dog, not just a healthy dog with a nice temperament.
Becky

But just because a breeder is inexperienced, doesn't man they don't know how to socialise a pup?
Not ALL show dogs have a great temprament.
Does a pet owner deserve the same 'quality' as a show dog? Of course, but they are probably looking for different things.

Totally agree Ramble. I was trying to make this same point on another thread. I don't think a dog/bitch should have to 'prove' itself in a ring, I for one don't appreciate shows so why would i insist that my puppy have parents that were considered to be the best examples of their breed?

I also think that if breeders can have a litter, with the aim of producing one dog for the ring, breeders can also breed for pets. I've never understood why people think it's ok for someone to have a litter of say 7 dogs, where only one may actually be shown, yet it's not ok to breed pets for people that want pets. It makes no sense whatsoever to me. I'll always agree that only healthy animals with sound temperaments should be bred from but in my eyes, the fact that a healthy, sound dog is shown doesn't make it anymore superior than a healthy, sound dog that isn't shown.

The doodle breeders will love you! Im sorry but I cannot see the purpose of purposely breeding mongrel when perfectly good dogs are being pts every single day.

Depends on what you mean by "quality" Debs. If it's long flowing coat on a Beardie, Excessive angulation on a GSD, heavy coat on a Border Collie, popping eyes of a Pekinese etc etc...... then no, pet owners don't deserve to have these showring encumbrances.

Yes, what is 'quality'?

True, but you won't win big with a dog who cowers at everything or one who bites people! Temperament plays a huge part in the showring.

I can't tell you how many times I've met people out walking with dogs who have the most horrendous temperaments - and the vast majority of them are pet bred.

Debs

Think some mongrel owners would be a bit miffed to find that their dogs are anything other than "perfectly good" and as for the "Doodles" ... why not... I've said before, they were all new breeds at one time. As long as the proper health checks etc are being done then I see no diff between breeding "show dogs" or "pets"

The vast majority of dogs bred for the 'pet' market are all bred solely for sale, then you get the 'profit' factor which means that corners have usually been cut and as far as I'm concerend no litter should be bred with the sole purpose of all puppies being sold, that's puppy farming in my book.
Becky

Quality is that indefinable 'something' that well bred animals (and people! :d ) of any species have. It's not just how they're made or what coats they have, it's a number of things put together that include, among others things, type, temperament, base health, coat, conformation, movement - all these things (not just one or two of them) make up a quality animal IMO. Doesn't everyone deserve those things in their puppy?

Debs