KC Breed Recognition/ Registration as a Breed

Just wondering how long it took for your chosen breed to become UK KC Recognised and registered? From time of the breed creation (whichever country that may be), to recognition/registration over here.

BC's are interesting, their country of development is Australia---because they were first registered over there. Then in 1976 the KC moved all the ISDS dogs over to the KC register and proceeded to change the breed into something it wasn't.

rune

Have no idea, I think in the very early days of the KC you could register anything as anything and in Poodles there was a debate as to whether the corded and the curly coats were two separate breeds.
The last of the sizes to be recognised was the Toy in 1956 but small poodles have been around for centuries.
Becky

Er no Border Collies were recognised as a separate breed on the old Working Trials & Obedience Register from the very first days of the WTAOR & the dogs had to be ISDS registered. Any other BC type dog was deemed to be a WSD.

In 1976 the KC recognized the BC as a "Breed"dog & all the dogs from unbroken ISDS/KC lines(ie ISDS dogs reg on WTAOR mated to ISDS bitches registered on the WTAOR & then offspring of KC reg BC on the WTAOR mated to either another offspring of two WTAOR BCs or a WTAOR bitch mated to an ISDS dog(or vica versa)etc etc without any WSD appearing in the pedigree & ISDS dogs & their offspring reg on the WTAOR were transferred to the full breed register along with any other dog registered with the Aust/NZ KC as BCs(or their offspring)The KC BC breed standard sadly is based on the Aust Breed Standard. The BC is a "British"breed & ISDS dogs are still registered as BCs with the KC

The breed was not"developed in Autralia/New Zealand-it was simply recognized as a KC "Breed" before the UK in these countries. Some of the first Champions were dual registered dogs or ISDS dogs registered with the KC

Any dog can be registered as anything on the working register----I have known kelpies sent back as wsd's. Some Jack Russels get through and others are sent back as x breeds.I think it depends who checks the forms.

I registered a dog as a BC before they were accepted and he had no papers.

This is one reference to country of development

http://www.deitmahrbordercollies.com/breedstandard.cfm

This Wikie entry explains it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eds_by_country

rune

PS---I find it annoying as well!

I beg to differ again

Very strange as only ISDS dogs have ever been registered on the WTAOR(now activities register)as BCs-how do I know ? because two of my current dogs go back to ISDS dogs registered as BCs on the WTAOR in 1956 & from there backwards they were all ISDS registered.

The first Obedience show was held by Camberley & DCS in 1927, the next was held by the BAA(British Alsatian Association in October 1927 & an Obedience Test was held in London by The Alsatian League.

All the shows from this date onwards were restricted to"Alsatians" until after WWII

If the BC dog had no papers it would be(& still is)registered as a WSD on the WTR, WTAOR & now the Activities register.

The Border Collie was only recognized as a BC if it was from ISDS parents or registered with the ISDS itself. This has been the case certainly from the inception of Obedience.

In 1952 Bill Shackleton made up his BC bitch Zena(ISDS 494 in the August(she was originally reg as a WSD but later this was corrected to BC). The dogs that competed were mainly GSDs.In 1956 Ob Ch Dash(ISDS 10303)He was Zena's son by an ISDS dog(Nicky 636 So the BC was recognized many years before the Australians recognized them, the only difference was the dogs were not treated as "a conformation"breed.

WSDs really didn't appear until the ISDS brought in compulsory eye tested before registration & many farmers/shepherds not wanting the extra cost stopped registering their puppies with the ISDS

Any dog that was not from KC registered parents could be full breed registered if Ch Sh breed judge stated that the dog was definitely of the breed it looked like. Any other dog was registered as X breed unless the breed was not on the Full Breed Register.

The above changed in the late 1960s/early 1970s & then any dog from unregistered parents was registered as the breed but only on the WTAOR except the Border Collie & they still had to be ISDS registered, unless its parents were from an unbroken line of ISDS then WTAOR dogs.

The WTAOR was renamed to bring in Agility, HTM & Flyball dogs.

Sorry I don't use Wikipedia for records for BCs in Obedience anyone can put an entry on it & some are out by miles in their facts.

I also wouldn't rely on an Australian site for factual information about British BCs(BTW all the Australian/NZ BCs go back to ISDS dogs & most Australian dogs have Kelpie in their pedigrees !!)

Sorry---not sure where obedience comes into it?

My point was the country of development of the BC is Australia and we are the country of origin.

Thats because they developed the show BC.

I don't rely on Wikie either but it was a quick search reference. In this case it is also right.

I have several registerd wsd's (on the working register)and have had some before but when I did my first one I called him a BC and he came back as one----as I say, it seems to depend on who reads the forms. I don't think the KC care mush as long as they get the money.

rune

Well it doesn't now as the registration scheme is computerized no ISDS docs no registration as a BC, WSD on the activities register is all that is available. I sent off my Rjjs pedigree, ISDS reg cert copy plus a BC reg form & I got a letter back asking for a five generation certified pedigree of the ISDS dogs as otherwise he would be a WSD on the activities register,this was only 3 years ago. When I got my first BC(1970)I had to send in the ISDS reg with the KC reg form to reg her as a BC & this has been the case with all my dogs since than(before & after breed recognition)

The Obedience link is very important as more show BCs go back to Obedience dogs than go back to the foreign dogs & I mean well over 90 % so the UK show BC breed is far more ISDS/Obedience that foreign dogs. Sadly the type being bred to are much smaller & heavier set that the real BCs & not just from foreign lines, bigger tipped eared all British dogs are now the norm, my Rjj(pure ISDS)is spot on for size etc(has the classic semi erect ears too)but he towers above the show dogs & Wu's sister is also bigger than male show dogs & she too is spot on for size.

The only thing that is Australian is the Breed Standard & BTW the Australians are trying to change their breed standard to include the tipped ears as the only type acceptable as they are more showy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me about it (G)!

rune

LOLOL My Rjj is Cornish BTW & my next BC will(touch wood & paws crossed)also be an ISDS Cornish BC(but a girl this time) !