Need help understanding/managing his behaviour

Ok, this may get long so thanks in advance if you stick with me.

Here's the background; Enzo 18 month old castrated male Affenpinscher, lives with 4 year old neutered female Schnauzer (Pepper) and 2 1/2 year old entire male Affen (Gozo).

The problem is that Enzo dislikes most other dogs and demonstrates this by bouncing over to them yapping then circles back to me. Occasionally he can greet calm dogs with a calm exchange of sniffing but any dog who is in any way excited prompts the bouncing and yapping, or if he is on the lead lunging. Some dogs we meet seem to enjoy provoking him and see it as a game. Other dogs (understandably) react aggressively and as he is small it's not the other dog that will come off worse and I'll only have myself to blame!

Enzo is very attached and responsive to me, we are doing agility and hope to enter some competitions this year.

I've consulted a trainer/behaviourist who said that I over nurture him, that this behaviour is classic in the youngest dog in a mixed dog household and the only way to completely cure it would be to keep him separate from the other dogs for 6 weeks.

But as this is not practical we could manage the situation by improving his training to the level where he would do what he was told rather than what he wants (ie to bark at the other dogs). She said that dogs do not move towards something that they are scared of so it's not fear aggression. He needed to be walked separately from the other two and all play-fighting between the 3 of them had to stop. We also had a feeding regime where he had to be feed 10 times a day and sit and wait for his food and if he moved he wouldn't get it, the time and distractions were gradually increased.

Ok, so where did we get to? I kept up the separate walk for about 6 weeks until the bad weather and being busy at Xmas intervened and I lapsed.

I kept up the feeding exercise and he can sit and wait for food with pretty much anything going on, even the other dogs coming in.

I clamped down on the play fighting but frankly feel like King Canute trying to hold back the waves, it is reduced but not eliminated.

He has to sit and wait to be invited on my lap rather than just jumping up, mostly he can manage this but sometimes he just doesn't seem to get it and does a funny little bark thing, which I am doing my best to ignore.

Results; frustratingly little change in his behaviour! Despite all my efforts in time and money (which is tight at the moment ) we don't seem to have made much of an impact at all.

So where do we go from here? Is it possible to train a dog to be more sociable/tolerant? Or do I have to accept this is just his personality and just work towards managing the situation?

J.

Are you sure it's a dislike to other dogs, and not just a lack of manners/knowledge on how to play? Casper has quite a boisterous play manner - him and Kiki will rough play indoors but Kiki will tell him when she's had enough, and he listens. However, when I first got him, he had a bad habit of rushing over to strange dogs and trying to jump on the, scruff them, etc. in the same way he'd initiate play at home. Well, Kiki telling him off was one thing, but strange dogs generally don't have the confidence to tell him to bog off! Excitable dogs bouncing around would worsen his behaviour. Hence he was relegated to the longline until he learnt some manners.
We've been attending group GSD walks for a while and although we had a bit of a break from them over summer when it was too hot to drive, he certainly has come a long way since I first adopted him.
If you think it might just be this kind of problem then finding a confident dog who will correct him fairly, not aggressively, may help. I'm lucky that I have one of this in-house to help with Casper, but even attending the groups and having him see how the dogs interact seems to have helped. And walking with GSDs means he gets to have a bit of rough and tumble play with the ones that enjoy it, so he gets to express himself but learns to do it with a little bit more self-control than he used to.
Even parallel walking/following groups of dogs with Enzo on-lead may help? Amanda joined us on one of these walks with Cain at the weekend and Cain was quite "splatty" at the start of the walk, but after a while of walking behind the group, he began ignoring more and more of the excitable behaviour and the splats became noticably less frequent - he even managed walking mid-group for quite a while with what I thought was notably different behaviour.

Perhaps a second opinion from a behaviourist may be worthwhile too? You don't sound too impressed by what the first one said. Have you tried the APBC website for a local behaviourist?

at the trainer. (sorry) Blame the Owner - classic! Then if the dog doesn`t improve obviously it`s the owner`s fault.
Please please please lose the trainer!

OK - think about this....
How does being invited on to an owners lap sometimes and not others relate to the dog`s experience of other dogs?
It doesn`t.
How does play fighting with his friends affect his feelings about other dogs?
it doesn`t.
How does being badgered with food all day affect his experience of other dogs
it doesn`t.

Your dog has a problem with other dogs. Unknown dogs who might possibly be a threat. This is a pretty common problem.
Actually I`m quite angry that some charlatan has conned you into paying money to give you this rubbish.
Dog-dog aggression is eminently treatable by socialising and training.
Go to a proper trainer, or read....
Fight!: A Practical Guide to the Treatment of Dog-dog Aggression Author: Jean Donaldson
Click to Calm: Healing the Aggressive Dog (Karen Pryor Clicker Book) or
James O`Heare Dog Aggression Workbook.

Some strange advice there..IMO.

I don't think I understand your post - he bounds over to other dogs then comes back to you. - Long line him, let him go over to the other dogs but the moment he starts with any noise - reel him in and walk away (you can do this with a short line and take him to the dog)

If he lead lunges - walk the other way.

Can't really offer advice for the dogs coming over and provoking him - I let my dogs teach each other how far they can go - unless it's gone too far (for me) and then I step in.
But obviously with him being small - it isn't really an option for you - unless you only greet and use this methods with small dogs.

There is a book: Click to calm - CAD or SNS are probably best to tell you about this.

Have you tried holistic foods - carrots and brown rice. Give him his normal meal but then give him a carrot to chew on or some rice. They have a protein or something - not quite sure, in them that gets the brain to release serotonin - serotonin is released and you have a happy and a calmer dog.

Hope I've helped

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I found her on the APDT web site, she has fab qualifications and experience, can't really afford to start all over with someone new.

Now those books sound excellent, off to Amazon right now!

J.

...I think that she was trying to make sure he knew he had to do want I told him and earn privileges, like laps.....
play fighting ...
I suppose it would if his behaviour was more about rough play than warning off.
... food all day ...
This was to make him more attentive to me.

This sounds like a mish-mash of NILIF and other approaches.
Dogs really don`t have deep inner lives. If you want him to stop doing something, you train an alternative behaviour.
I`m surprised she`s using NILIF (earning priviledges) because that isn`t particularly good with timid dogs. It increases stress so won`t help your dog become more relaxed and confident.
Play with dogs he knows won`t have anything to do with his apprehension about dogs outside. It`s rather sad that he`s being stopped from having normal ( and play fighting is normal) interactions with his friends. If it gets too loud I usually suggest they all b*ggar off, which seems to halt it as they prefer to do it under my feet. A simple Out command sorts it, anyway.
If you`re training using his food, great. Little and often is the way to go. But giving him food for the sake of it? Or maybe I`ve misunderstood?

Anyway, I hope you can find some tips in those books.

Just ordered Jean Donaldson's Practical Guide, The Culture Clash is out of stock so I'm looking on ebay, don't think I'll be getting this...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canine-Aggre...4749996&sr=1-8
£165!!!

Thanks again,

J.

My Tilly (Yorkie) is exactly the same with other dogs. Funnily enough, she wasn't bothered about other dogs and didn't react to them at all until she was over a year old. She is about 20 months now and it is only in the last 6 months or so she has behaved in this way. She isn't aggressive, but puts up a big defensive front because she is quite a nervous little dog. When she actually has to come into direct contact with a dog off-lead, she either won't let the dog near her or may have a quick sniff before scampering off. This is despite plenty of socialization as a pup.

I think you may have got that idea from Victoria Stilwell who advocates giving carrots & white rice for aggression problems. Unfortunately it's not quite that simple!

There has been some research on dietary supplements of L-tryptophan (a precursor to serotonin). L-tryptophan is an essential amino acid that occurs in low concentrations in most protein sources. But in order for it to get access via the blood/brain barrier, it needs a "transport system" by binding to other molecules. L-tryptophan has to compete for this transport with other large neutral amino acids. By giving a low protein diet, the ratio of L-tryptophan to the other amino acids is increased, thereby allowing more of the "transport system" to be available to the L-tryptophan, & thereby increasing the amount transported across the blood-brain barrier.

BUT the research also showed that low protein & L-tryptophan supplements reduced territorial aggression whilst a high protein diet with or without L-tryptophan supplements generally resulted in less "dominance" aggression.

This research was published in 2000 & since then (& probably before then) there has been some doubt over whether aggression can be categorised as "dominance" aggression, or territorial aggression etc etc. The vets conducting this research were also concerned about the safety of these products & the long-term effects. And IMO, there would also be doubts as to whether the causes of any aggression have been correctly identified in the first place.

I'm pointing this out purely because there's a lot more to managing behavioural problems than just changing diets & adding supplements. And changing diets for one behavioural reason, could have knock on effects for other health issues. It's an extremely complex subject & not one I would want anyone other than a veterinary nutritionist to advice on.

Having said that I don't suppose for one minute that the addition of the odd carrot or some rice to a dog's diet would do any harm ~ but probably not have any effect on behaviour either.

Exactly! Here too, Enzo was fine until he was about 14 months, then one particular dog was a bit rough with him, not at all aggressive, just a bit rough and it gradually got worse from there.

Enzo's problem is that unlike your Tilly he won't just scamper off He feels the need to tell off any dog that is in any way boisterous.

And this is despite plenty of socialisation.

J.