Tips for Initial meeting with other dogs

hi
We have a Catalan Sheepdog (a rescue) and he's around 2 years old. We are pretty sure he wasn't socialised with other dogs when he was a pup as he's unable to meet and greet dogs when we are out on walks. Once he gets to know a dog he's fine - its the initial greeting. As soon as he sees another dog he wants to get over there - he runs over - appears friendly but excitable - some dogs try to calm him others show submissive behaviour - there's always a scuffle - lots of noise but no blood drawn - then its over. Its like he wants to dominate straightaway. When we first got him we had a dog behaviourist see him as we were told that his previous owners said he was food aggressive - but the behaviourist said that it was not aggression - he is however insecure. He tends to go from 0-10 in a flash in excitement which on one occasion with another very excited dog led to a fight - and once he's up there its difficult to do anything with him but remove him from the scene - its excitement rather than aggression as when he's calmed I can stand, be it at a little distance, and talk to those I meet and he's fine. He is very playful and with the dogs he gets on with he's great, we go on walks and he's fine - if he steps over the line they sort him out. People have told me that he needs a mature female to walk with - interestingly the 2 dogs he gets on best with are both male - one is 4 and one is 7.

I always walk him on a lead now (extending and short) because to other dog owners its not a pleasant experience. He's probably worse on the lead but I don't have much option. I have tried various methods and I'm fairly calm when it happens as I am conscious about how my energy can influence his behaviour but its getting a little frustrating - I really want to sort it out as I want to get him into utility if possible, he would love that - he's very intelligent and easy to train. Any tips??

Hi Whitray -

I'm no expert but I do have experience of owning an aggressive staffie X.

I would highly highly highly recommend a technique called BAT - just google it (it stands for behaviour adjustment therapy), I would suggest you don't allow your dog any direct contact with other dogs for probably a couple of months, allow him to see other dogs as much as you possibly can (point them out whilst he is on a lead so he sees them, when he reacts you entice him away, clicker training would be useful her, but don't allow him to approach until he's calm (easier said than done and he might never be completely). After some moonths find some dogs that you know who are quite placid and allow a 5 second sniff - . Keep it very low level -no fuss,5 seconds controlled sniff and move on then over time build it up.

I took on my dog as a rescue I was told he was good with other dogs - and he was. I foolishly allowed him to play with any dog, some were very very rough players and he quickly lost his nerve - once he lost his nerve he resorted to aggression, not a snap or a telling off, but full blown aggression (no veterinary visits thank goodness). Your dog doesn't know how to approach a dog yet.

Whatever happens don't make the mistake I did. Please let me know how you get on. And please ask me more questions. Others might chip in with their advice too.

Sorry, just wanted to add, and others will agree on here, ignore everythinng you've learnt until now with regard to dominance and energy etc.. it's outdated. As well as investigating BAT, learn clicker training (absolutely miraculous) reward him whenever he's calm, get his attention by playing lots of enjoyable games.

Many thanks for the advice and your experiences - I will have a look into BAT and the clicker approach.

Someone lent me a collar that had a vibrate and sound option on it - we found that the sound did bring his focus back onto us. I wonder what people feel about that approach?

Much appreciated.

hmmm I'm not keen on any gadgets (apart from the clicker) - certainly see what others on here think about it.

Hi Whitray - sorry to memo again, I'm just surprised that you haven't got more responses to your question. There is a core number of folk on here that are really very experienced with dog training. It could be one or two reasons firstly for some reason your post didn't show up in the "new posts" which is where a lot of Dogsey die-hards look each day and secondly it may have been a mid-week posting that got overlooked.

Your posting is just the kind of thing that people on here would comment on. I do feel you need a greater range of advice and would suggest maybe you post the same question again (just cut and paste) maybe this evening for the weekenders to pick up. Catrinsparkles and Maisie are two very experienced trainers and would give you some very good advice. I think we know our dogs and obviously we know our lifestyles and what training would suit both.

One last thing - I will shut-up I promise after this, if you are taking your dog to training do try an ADPT trainer they use gentle reward based methods - steer clear of any training class that recommends choke chains or suggests that punishment is the way to go - it isn't.

Thank you Baxter8 for your advice.
I will post again for the weekend.
As for your last para - Firstly don't feel you have to shut up and secondly anything that suggests negative is good for training is something I would run a mile from anyway. So thanks for the heads up.
Have a good weekend!

Sorry have no advice, but good for you for posting this subject and seeking help from people with experience. Am learning so much from Dogsey,alot of which I'll save for future reference.Hope you get sorted, good luck

From what you say it looks like he doesn't know how to be a dog or speak dog, bit like us not understanding someone talking to us in a language we don't understand.


I agree with the behaviourist but also he doesn't understand how to be a dog or speak dog. Over excitement can lead to fights, it does with children as well.

When you stand a little away he gets the chance to look at everything, and work out that he doesn't have to behave in the way he does.

He needs a dog that can teach him to be a dog and speak dog, he also needs to realise that mum will protect him, he doesn't need to protect himself.

Dogs like him are usually worse on a lead, they can't run away but have to stand and fight in their minds. I am working with someone now who's dog is like this and he has improved a lot.

BAT can work but I found that a lot of dogs are put under too much stress because the person working with the dog can't read the dog properly, this is trainers and behaviourists a well.

How I deal with a dog like this is to keep them from reacting, the more they react they more they will because it is self rewarding. Dog walking towards them, my dog reacts, dog continues on his way with his owner so my dog thinks he has chased the other dog away, next time he tries harder to chase the other dog away so the reaction is worse.

I keep my dog from reacting by having him at a distance were he doesn't react, I have taken my dog into fields, hid behind cars, turned and walked the other way, anything to stop my dog reacting.

If I can stay at a distance were my dog can see the other dog I stand in front of him and get him to "Watch me", he can see the other dog but my legs are a barrier for him. It usually goes, "Watch me", look, Watch me" look, etc while the dog goes past.

When my dog is happy with this I then as my dog to look at the other dog, then a "watch me".

Gradually the distance will get shorter and shorter as my dog gets less stress and works out he doesn't have to try and chase the other dog away.

The first time a dog I able to pass close to us is wonderful, it is such an achievement for my dog and it will happen if your dog goes at his time not ours.

Good luck.

BAT method is excellent but not so good for me as I walk two dogs and one of mine is absolutely fine. Both of mine (2yrs) were socialised really well but one of them was attacked while on a lead (when he was 10months old) by an out of control Jack Russell who latched on to him and wouldn't leave go for a good 3-4 minutes. As a direct result he was left traumatised and very wary of all dogs (other than his brother). What I was advised to do was walk with lots of 'friendly' dogs on lead which I did. My trouble is walking towards an oncoming dog. What is working for us is to stop and put him into a sit and get him to watch me and give him a treat as the dog passes. He is so much better than he was but will still snap and growl if I haven't seen a dog coming and put him into a sit. I would say he is now 80% better than he was. For me having two dogs he is now in a situation that I can let one of my dogs say hello while the other one focuses on me. More often than not now he will remain calm while he says a very quick hello and on we walk.
With just one dog BAT is excellent, I just didn't want to keep walking in the opposite direction when we saw another dog for my OK dog's benefit.

Good luck and the advice from Baxter is great.