Lumps... again.

i know i make a lota posts about ym doggies health - but i knwo you guys have way more years of experience than me - and sometimes the vets dont always know everything so id like to hear your views too.


nick - 11 years old 12 in summer - has fatty lumps under his chest - which have been checked by the vet which are ok

he now has one on his head - which in the space of 3 days has grown bigger - he also has one now which we found on his back near his spine -

he also has arthritus in his back legs/back - which he is on metacam for (10ml) he can have upto 23ml of this (his boyweight) - i know collies life expectancy according to the vet was upto 12 - but i read 14 anyhow

i have noticed in the past few weeks he has problems sitting, he can lay down and get up pain free, can go to the toilet etc - except 2 times when he was out walking he just had to drop and go

he runs round like a nutter - lives life - pain free and happy - but all his bumps, and arthtitus (main problem) is concerning me

i do his metacam, which some days i have bumped upto 12 ml, i tried not giving him in a few weeks ago (when he was better) for 2 days - but believe me he needed it...

anyhow now sam

sam is 10 and 3 months - she had a stroke in spring last year - which rseulted in scans etc - which showed she had a cyst, arthritus in her spine and a narrowing of (i think) nerves - appologies if i dont hve this correct - basically shes a timebomb waiting to go off - shes not in any pain (or wasnt) we were told by the vet she wuld have a limp - she actually hasnt until you really study her - but tbh she walks like acrab when shes out on her lead - just the way she is, but shes not in pain - isnt on metacam

yesterday she had 2 runs - one of my mum and one off me - they manage 10/15mins now until they wnt to go home, she runs round like a maniac lol - always has done

anyhow - this morning i noticed she was limping, very stiff on her bad leg (affect of the stroke and even befoe the stroke she was limping), so mum took her to the end of the road and back to see if she could walk it off - she didnt

now she's curled up in a ball asleep, so's nick,

imo they should go back to the vets - but the vet will onyl say see howit goes - tbh im sick of them saying that - theres not a lot they can do for sam, for nick imo they shuld doa biopsy off his fatty lumps and advise us on this (they never have done any proper tests)

this is really morbid,, i know in my heart the pair of them havent got time on their side - but theres no way we would let them suffer. Id rather (and my mum agrees) to let them go healthyish, painfree and remember them like that than to keep them going for the sake of 'seeing how they go' which imo isnt fair



im not asking you to tell me just offer me advice as to what our next steps should be... yes they probably willgo back to the vets on monday, not a lot they can do relaly like i said but still.....

where do you say enough is enough?

p.s this is why i avent been on lately,, worried aboutmy babies

I can understand your concerns, it's hard watching your dogs getting old and not being able to do all the things they used to be able to do.

But you know them so well, you will know when the time is right, I'm sure. IMO it's when they have no pleasure left in life - they are just living without enjoyment, and/or when they are in too much pain.

As long as they are happy, try not to worry about it too much, just enjoy them.

I think you have two options really.

1st is to request that your vet takes some biopsy's from Sam and to get them analysed so you know exactly what is causing them and go from there.

2nd, Go to a different vets and get a second opinion on both of the dogs.

Suze no one on here can tell you when is the correct time to say goodbye to your dogs, only you will know that time. But my rule has always been when any of my dogs cease to have any quality of life.

I know I have been guilty in the past of keeping one of my dogs alive for a few days longer then he should of been allowed, and that was purely because of my own selfish actions as I didn't want to let him go, but that's a regret I have got to live with for the rest of my life.

I know this reply to your post hasn't answered your question, but I don't think anyone can. It is something you and your Mum have got to decide together.

I would echo that, good advice.
Colin, we have all been there. I think we often keep animals going for our own selfish reasons.

thank guys

i would never ask you to tell me what to do = just advice on options

our vets haev all been very good to us

i might ring my horses vet who used to treat small animals - her hubby has his own practise as well

were going to take sam the vets on monday - nick will go to -

you know for biopsy's - do they have to be knocked out - i dont know about these types of things - either way it has to be done

neither are (as far as we know) are in pain - both are very happy living life to the full - its just little doubts in our minds somtimes

thanks guys

This is a very hard time of year for old dogs, as the cold and damp gets into their bones. My eldest wears a jumper and doesn`t go out much unless we get a freak warm day or someone offers us a lift to the country park. He`s covered with lumpy bits, is deaf and partly blind - and can`t go through the night without a widdle - but he still has spirit and loves his dinners - and tells the other dogs off when they wake him up. And he shouts up the stairs in the mornings for his breakfast.
I think you always know when a dog has had enough; I let my first dog go too long, but that was out of love, and I won`t do it again. Don`t worry about it - just enjoy the time you have left.

they can ultrasound the lumps first to see if there is a blood supply going to them if not, just fat if so biposy
if they are not in pain I wouldnt worry too much

Suze it is very hard watching a good friend age before your eyes

You will know when the time has come, and you then have to do what is right for the dog and not for you. The last two years of my old girls life she aged dramatically from a zoomie busy collie to a sedate older ladyShe was approx 13/14 when she passed away. She developed fatty lumps, went partially blind and more or less completely deaf,but she was still happy in herself,she was also a little arthritic, and I used to hate watching her struggle some mornings getting out of her bed, she was fine once she got moving though. If she hadn't of developed cancer, then I think she would of plodded along like this with little walks , pottering around.

Also,she coped much better in warmer weather, I bought her a coat to keep the chill off, and she would love it ,if on a day like this, I would cover her in a cosy blanket, she slept a lot more too. Before the kids came along we used to long term foster oldies, we had several very old JRTs and each one you just knew when they had enough, they sort of gave up, you could see it in their eyes.


Your dogs sound like they have a good quality of life for their age, and that is waht is important I wish you have plenty of happy times with them xxxxxxx

As hali said enjoy them xxxxx Don't worry about the what ifs until they happen,enjoy the special moments

I would imagine that the tests done on Nick's lumps would be fine needle aspirations, or as vets often refer to them "FNA's". This is done concious, where a needle is inserted into the lump, wiggled around a bit, and then removed. This is then attached to a syringe, which the vet will use to transfer the cells from the needle onto a microscope slide. These slides will then be sent off to an outside laboratory (unless your vets have the ability to run those particular tests) for analysis.

Although your vet said that a life expectancy for a collie is twelve, I have had one collie live to 15, and another to 18 - they can surprise us sometimes!

My old girl suffered two strokes, and recovered well from her first, although she always had a slight head tilt afterwards. We made the decision to have her PTS after her second, purely because she had other problems too and we decided that it wasn't really fair on her, as the vet was doubtful of her recovery from her second, purely due to the other issues she had.

As it stands, your dogs, despite their problems sound very happy. I would ask the vet to take some tests on Nicks lumps, and if they are not willing, seek a second opinion from another vet.

Good luck xxxx

thanks everyone

will keep you all posted on anything good or bad