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xxizmexx
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xxizmexx is offline  
Location: Swindon, UK
Joined: Jan 2011
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30-01-2011, 03:07 PM

Dominant dog that submissivly pees!?

I am here to get help with a whole range of issues I am having with my 4 year old Rotti x GSD.

Blitz is very dominant dog!! It’s something that affects EVERY decision I make! Not that I mind about that, I love my dog, he is the love of life. He really does mean everything to me. And I know that I mean everything to him.

The only way I can think of explaing my day to day issues, is to outline the biggest parts of the problems and tell you how I deal with them, and rule I have put in place to ensure everyone safety really. But I need to know what you need to know? If that makes sense...?

Walking -

No going through the door first

This is something Blitz has always done, its proving a challenge but we will get there

Never leave him outside of the shops!

When Blitz was about a year old, he got loose from his halti while left outside the shop by my mum. He attacked a man in the street and made front page news in my local newspaper. But the police were very understanding. They said that considering the size of Blitz, if he really wanted to harm this man, he would have, the man’s injuries were minor, jeans were ripped right open but there was only a small scratch on his leg. But he still tried to sue my mum for dangerous dog handling.

Dog aggression

When I see another dog, I will turn and walk in the opposite direction and hope he doesn’t see it. If he does see it, I just say deeply ‘no’ then firmly walk him in the other direction which usually works. However, if he sees the dog first, I have to just stop and cling on for dear life, I have even had to sit down on the ground to keep him with me and controlled. But as soon as I loose my feeling of control, the walk ends.

Never let off the lead or alow to meet new people, unless muzzled!!

Play –

No tug of war

My mum never listens to me when I say this. So as soon as it starts I leave with him, I think this is more a case of training my mum than him.

Growling

Sometimes if the growl is obviously playful and the person playing with him is ok with it and knows Blitz, I let him carry on. The second it gets too deal or aggressive, I stand up and point to the door, saying firmly ‘out! now!’

Guarding

He guards EVERYTHING! Toys, pieces of food, my food if I leave it anywhere(although he will not eat it), he guards shoes, bags, pieces of paper, everything and anything. I gave up on just removing the toys ect as he just moves on to something else. Instead, I have now learnt to tell the signs, ears back head lowered and eyes wide open. The most effective way of dealing with it has been ‘go, get out take it with you’. Especially if there are other people in the flat, because I don’t want anyone to get hurt. If he can’t take it with him I just stay persistent and eventually always manage to remove him from the room, without touching him!

Food-

I feed him, NO one else.
I am the only one who truly understands his boundary’s when it comes to food. Not that I test them. But when I went to my sisters a while back I left strict instructions with my uncle. Feed and leave. Simple. Don’t attempt to enter the room until he has finished.

But now that I have started to feeling in control of my dog, he has started submissively urinating, everywhere, all the time, on everyone’s feet. Especially when he first sees them, if he hasn’t seen them since the day before or whenever. I personally make sure not to talk to him or acknowledge him when I enter the flat, and usually I’m the only one that doesn’t get peed on. But when we go over someone else’s home for example, my mums, he goes round the house first, checks the perimeter, then as soon as my mum goes to touch him or ever says anything to him, he pees. And then he licks it up!! I try to stop him and clean it up but it’s getting too much. Why is he doing this? He just isn’t that sort of dog!? I have never hurt him, or punished him physically and he’s been with me since 8 weeks old so what is going on?

Please can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong!??

Any help is grately appreciated! If you need to know anything else I am happy to tell you anything, also please do look at my [a social network] photos, they do show him in a few diffent ways you will see what I meen once you have seen them!
Just search for Bliitz Walton, you will find him

Thank you in advance
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shaunclemens
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shaunclemens is offline  
Location: GB
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 132
Male 
 
30-01-2011, 03:14 PM
there are 2 things that come to mind and that is 1 marking territory but i doubt this very much. and 2nd being that he has a very unpleasent experience with meeting new people. does any of this make sense inbox me please
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xxizmexx
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xxizmexx is offline  
Location: Swindon, UK
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Female 
 
30-01-2011, 03:34 PM
I cant inbox sorry I havn't done 20 posts yet

He pees on people he has known for years tho, he even does it with me if I talk to him or stroke him when I come in the door, thats why I ignore him at first.

He does it when I go to put his lead on as well.

Thank you for quick response
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shaunclemens
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30-01-2011, 03:38 PM
ill be honest thats confusing me very much. when he pees does he go into submissive position (head low start lying down)
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ClaireandDaisy
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Location: Essex, UK
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30-01-2011, 04:05 PM
The dominance theory is a human construct, which is why it doesn`t make sense with dogs.
Here are a couple of good articles:
http://k9domain.org/alpha_theory.aspx
http://www.fun4fido.co.uk/blog/debun...ance-myth.html


Blitz is very dominant dog!! It’s something that affects EVERY decision I make


Assume for a moment that this dog is not `dominant` and look at what is actually happening,
He wants to go first. He is impulsive and poorly trained. This is not dominance. This is impatience and bad manners. Join a good (positive) training club and train him round other dogs.

if he sees (another) dog ..., I have to just stop and cling on for dear life.
Again, this is down to you, not the dog. He is under-socialised, has no idea how to interact properly with other dogs and is out of control. You need to find a good (positive) trainer and work on this.
Growling... I stand up and point to the door, saying firmly ‘out! now!’ A growl is a vocalisation. If a dog growls in play that is all it is. If a fearful dog growls it is a warning. Depends on the circumstances. Either way I would never tell a dog not to growl. It`s your early warning that you need to stop stressing the dog. Introiduce control into your play. Teach Retrieve. Ask for a Sit during a game. Ask for a Down in exchange for a game. The dog will learn sel-control that way.
He guards EVERYTHING! ... The most effective way of dealing with it has been ‘go, get out take it with you’ So in his eyes if there is something he wants, he is shouted out and rejected... but he keeps the prize. No. Teach a Swap then reward the dog

I recommend you read Jean Donaldson`s The Culture Clash and train your dog.
or Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training by Pamela Dennison
or anything by Karen Pryor.
Avoid anything by Cesar Milan.
Your dog can be turned around but you will need to rethink the way you work with him.
Good luck.
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Krusewalker
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Location: dullsville
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Posts: 4,241
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30-01-2011, 04:05 PM
you have got quite a difficukt dog there.

i wouldnt seperate the issues into separate brackets, i think his whole ligestyle needs addressing.

i wouldnt necessarily jump to the dominace theory either

google UKRCB, OR APDT, OR APBC for a trainer/behaviourist in your area.
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Meg
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30-01-2011, 04:06 PM
Hi Sonia may I make a few observations to begin with, they are not meant as a criticism .

Originally Posted by xxizmexx View Post
I am here to get help with a whole range of issues I am having with my 4 year old Rotti x GSD.

Blitz is very dominant dog!! It’s something that affects EVERY decision I make! Not that I mind about that, I love my dog, he is the love of life. He really does mean everything to me. And I know that I mean everything to him.
what makes you think he is 'dominant', a vastly overused word which is often used to describe a number of normal but misunderstood behaviours. A dog can be dominant in certain one to one situation but I don't subscribe to the dominant dog theory.

The only way I can think of explaing my day to day issues, is to outline the biggest parts of the problems and tell you how I deal with them, and rule I have put in place to ensure everyone safety really. But I need to know what you need to know? If that makes sense...?

Walking -

No going through the door first

This is something Blitz has always done, its proving a challenge but we will get there
I don't have a problem with dogs going through the door first, better than getting the dog and lead trapped in the door if you go through first . The 'not going through the door first' thing is all tied in with the outdated concept of the dominant dog.
Never leave him outside of the shops!
When Blitz was about a year old, he got loose from his halti while left outside the shop by my mum. He attacked a man in the street and made front page news in my local newspaper. But the police were very understanding. They said that considering the size of Blitz, if he really wanted to harm this man, he would have, the man’s injuries were minor, jeans were ripped right open but there was only a small scratch on his leg. But he still tried to sue my mum for dangerous dog handling.
I wouldn't leave him outside a shop alone anyway, he could be stolen or taunted into behaving defensively.

Dog aggression

When I see another dog, I will turn and walk in the opposite direction and hope he doesn’t see it. If he does see it, I just say deeply ‘no’ then firmly walk him in the other direction which usually works. However, if he sees the dog first, I have to just stop and cling on for dear life, I have even had to sit down on the ground to keep him with me and controlled. But as soon as I loose my feeling of control, the walk ends.

Never let off the lead or alow to meet new people, unless muzzled!!
saying ' no' in this way and your body language may be reinforcing his associating other dogs with negative experiences which requires defesive action on his part..

Play –

No tug of war

My mum never listens to me when I say this. So as soon as it starts I leave with him, I think this is more a case of training my mum than him.
Growling

Sometimes if the growl is obviously playful and the person playing with him is ok with it and knows Blitz, I let him carry on. The second it gets too deal or aggressive, I stand up and point to the door, saying firmly ‘out! now!’
your dog must be very confuse, sometimes growling is ok other times it is not and he is punished.

Guarding

He guards EVERYTHING! Toys, pieces of food, my food if I leave it anywhere(although he will not eat it), he guards shoes, bags, pieces of paper, everything and anything. I gave up on just removing the toys ect as he just moves on to something else. Instead, I have now learnt to tell the signs, ears back head lowered and eyes wide open. The most effective way of dealing with it has been ‘go, get out take it with you’. Especially if there are other people in the flat, because I don’t want anyone to get hurt. If he can’t take it with him I just stay persistent and eventually always manage to remove him from the room, without touching him!

Food-

I feed him, NO one else.
I am the only one who truly understands his boundary’s when it comes to food. Not that I test them. But when I went to my sisters a while back I left strict instructions with my uncle. Feed and leave. Simple. Don’t attempt to enter the room until he has finished.
He needs to learn there is no need to defend things , no one wishes to take his posessions.
But now that I have started to feeling in control of my dog, he has started submissively urinating, everywhere, all the time, on everyone’s feet. Especially when he first sees them, if he hasn’t seen them since the day before or whenever. I personally make sure not to talk to him or acknowledge him when I enter the flat, and usually I’m the only one that doesn’t get peed on. But when we go over someone else’s home for example, my mums, he goes round the house first, checks the perimeter, then as soon as my mum goes to touch him or ever says anything to him, he pees. And then he licks it up!! I try to stop him and clean it up but it’s getting too much. Why is he doing this? He just isn’t that sort of dog!? I have never hurt him, or punished him physically and he’s been with me since 8 weeks old so what is going on?
Please can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong!??
to me your dog sounds confused and in some instances afraid , I would guess he has been given mixed messages and is not sure how to react in some situations .
Any help is grately appreciated! If you need to know anything else I am happy to tell you anything, also please do look at my [System edit: Contains pet groups] photos, they do show him in a few diffent ways you will see what I meen once you have seen them!
Just search for Bliitz Walton, you will find him

Thank you in advance
Sonia I will post some suggestions which may help later

ETA You have so many issues your really could do with the help of a good trainer. (see Krusewalkers suggestions above)

Just notice Claire has beaten me to making suggestions
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Pilgrim
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Location: Derbyshire, UK
Joined: Jul 2009
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30-01-2011, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
The dominance theory is a human construct, which is why it doesn`t make sense with dogs.
Here are a couple of good articles:
http://k9domain.org/alpha_theory.aspx
http://www.fun4fido.co.uk/blog/debunking-the-dominance-myth.html


Blitz is very dominant dog!! It’s something that affects EVERY decision I make


Assume for a moment that this dog is not `dominant` and look at what is actually happening,
He wants to go first. He is impulsive and poorly trained. This is not dominance. This is impatience and bad manners.

if he sees (another) dog ..., I have to just stop and cling on for dear life.
Again, this is down to you, not the dog. He is under-socialised, has no idea how to interact properly with other dogs and is out of control
Growling... I stand up and point to the door, saying firmly ‘out! now!’ A growl is a vocalisation. If a dog growls in play that is all it is. If a fearful dog growls it is a warning. Depends on the circumstances. Either way I would never tell a dog not to growl. It`s your early warning that you need to stop stressing the dog.
He guards EVERYTHING! ... The most effective way of dealing with it has been ‘go, get out take it with you’ So in his eyes if there is something he wants, he is shouted out and rejected... but he keeps the prize. No. Teach a Swap then reward the dog

I recommend you read Jean Donaldson`s The Culture Clash and train your dog.
or Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training by Pamela Dennison
or anything by Karen Pryor.
Avoid anything by Cesar Milan.
Your dog can be turned around but you will need to rethink the way you work with him.
Good luck.
Spot on Great advice there

From what you have described your dog doesn't sound 'dominant' at all in fact quite the opposite. He sounds like he is very fearful and has no idea how to deal with life in a positive manner
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Adam P
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Adam P is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
Male 
 
30-01-2011, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by xxizmexx View Post
I am here to get help with a whole range of issues I am having with my 4 year old Rotti x GSD.

Blitz is very dominant dog!! It’s something that affects EVERY decision I make! Not that I mind about that, I love my dog, he is the love of life. He really does mean everything to me. And I know that I mean everything to him.

The only way I can think of explaing my day to day issues, is to outline the biggest parts of the problems and tell you how I deal with them, and rule I have put in place to ensure everyone safety really. But I need to know what you need to know? If that makes sense...?

Walking -

No going through the door first

This is something Blitz has always done, its proving a challenge but we will get there

Never leave him outside of the shops!

When Blitz was about a year old, he got loose from his halti while left outside the shop by my mum. He attacked a man in the street and made front page news in my local newspaper. But the police were very understanding. They said that considering the size of Blitz, if he really wanted to harm this man, he would have, the man’s injuries were minor, jeans were ripped right open but there was only a small scratch on his leg. But he still tried to sue my mum for dangerous dog handling.

Dog aggression

When I see another dog, I will turn and walk in the opposite direction and hope he doesn’t see it. If he does see it, I just say deeply ‘no’ then firmly walk him in the other direction which usually works. However, if he sees the dog first, I have to just stop and cling on for dear life, I have even had to sit down on the ground to keep him with me and controlled. But as soon as I loose my feeling of control, the walk ends.

Never let off the lead or alow to meet new people, unless muzzled!!

Play –

No tug of war

My mum never listens to me when I say this. So as soon as it starts I leave with him, I think this is more a case of training my mum than him.

Growling

Sometimes if the growl is obviously playful and the person playing with him is ok with it and knows Blitz, I let him carry on. The second it gets too deal or aggressive, I stand up and point to the door, saying firmly ‘out! now!’

Guarding

He guards EVERYTHING! Toys, pieces of food, my food if I leave it anywhere(although he will not eat it), he guards shoes, bags, pieces of paper, everything and anything. I gave up on just removing the toys ect as he just moves on to something else. Instead, I have now learnt to tell the signs, ears back head lowered and eyes wide open. The most effective way of dealing with it has been ‘go, get out take it with you’. Especially if there are other people in the flat, because I don’t want anyone to get hurt. If he can’t take it with him I just stay persistent and eventually always manage to remove him from the room, without touching him!

Food-

I feed him, NO one else.
I am the only one who truly understands his boundary’s when it comes to food. Not that I test them. But when I went to my sisters a while back I left strict instructions with my uncle. Feed and leave. Simple. Don’t attempt to enter the room until he has finished.

But now that I have started to feeling in control of my dog, he has started submissively urinating, everywhere, all the time, on everyone’s feet. Especially when he first sees them, if he hasn’t seen them since the day before or whenever. I personally make sure not to talk to him or acknowledge him when I enter the flat, and usually I’m the only one that doesn’t get peed on. But when we go over someone else’s home for example, my mums, he goes round the house first, checks the perimeter, then as soon as my mum goes to touch him or ever says anything to him, he pees. And then he licks it up!! I try to stop him and clean it up but it’s getting too much. Why is he doing this? He just isn’t that sort of dog!? I have never hurt him, or punished him physically and he’s been with me since 8 weeks old so what is going on?

Please can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong!??

Any help is grately appreciated! If you need to know anything else I am happy to tell you anything, also please do look at my [System edit: Contains pet groups] photos, they do show him in a few diffent ways you will see what I meen once you have seen them!
Just search for Bliitz Walton, you will find him

Thank you in advance
Dominance is context spevific, he may be dominant to you but submissive to another human for example (or dog). Dominance is a way of defining a relationship, not overall state!

I would suggets you prevent him from peeing on people by recalling him/keeping him back from them and letting them speakj to him from a distance, this will relax/settle him a little, when they want to make contact have him sit as soon as he reaches them. This makes it harder to pee on them.
With time he should lose the habit.

Adam
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Wysiwyg
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
Female 
 
30-01-2011, 05:29 PM
I know of a fab trainer in your area, who specialises in the problems you are having, although she's unusually not apdt, apbc or capbt etc (which I usually recommend). I know she's pretty busy at the moment and we can't yet use the PM system. I don't like giving out names/numbers etc over the net so when you've done enough posts, if you are interested, do feel free to PM

I agree that the dominance word is very overused, these articles are very good, do have a read:

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/st...programmes.php

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/dog-aggression-FAQs

I agree that your dog needs to be looked at overall, I suspect there is a lot of stress in his life, even though he may seem in control quite a lot, aggressive etc.

This is almost certainly why he is doing this behaviour.


Sending you good luck

Wys
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