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Wysiwyg
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05-02-2010, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
Yup fans have said in his books he talks about some of the episodes, like the ones with the marley and me owners who (unsurprisingly) were having problems with their new dog
Apparently in the book it talks about the months of rehab he has done with the dog, the show then comes in and films, so the dog is behaving and he has to goad it to missbehave (and in this one it was chicken killing, he had to keep flapping a duck in its face till it eventally snapped at the duck, he let it make contact before he started his psssting, he kept pssting untill the dog was cowering on the floor then he started petting it with the ducks beak
Horrible the way he let another animal be attacked just for a TV show
I know - that alone was just an appalling episode from start to finish. His treatment of both animals, the way he almost forced the dog to react even when it was offering appeasement signals...

What I dislike so much is that when the animals communicate with him, he can't or won't read their attempts.

And he puts them in such awful situations, which are totally detrimental to their welfare.

Wys
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Wysiwyg
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05-02-2010, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
the episode with jonbee is so sad
the dog, a stray who the vet thinks was chained outside on a choke chain because of his injuries when the found him
is perfect in every way, even lets them flip him on his back in the garden
the only problem he has is in the house on the slippy floor with the muzzle on he hates being flipped on his back
in the garden he is fearful of cm
in the house he is again fearful but lets cm prod him
once the muzzle goes on he knows what is comming next and fights back
cm is holding the dog on a choke collar untill the dog gives up
he then shows the owner how to fight his dog onto its back
just horrible
why do you need to flip the dog?
why not put a rug down so it is less slippy and train the dog to roll over?
Crazy, isn't it? Just so sad and crazy.

Wys
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Wysiwyg
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05-02-2010, 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Shona View Post
it cant be done, if a dog has had a problem for years, its going to take longer than 5 mins to sort it,
dont get me wrong many dogs can be turned round, just not in 5 mins by CM.
Absolutely Shona, spot on - yet the programmes show it all happening in a short time ... in reality, they are short changing viewers and misleading them

Wys
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JanieM
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05-02-2010, 03:48 PM
I think the fact is that it's not until someone uses one of his methods and it goes wrong that they will finally maybe question what and why it went wrong and then maybe research and get educated. I know that probably sounds very patronising and it's not meant to be but I was a fan of CMs and thought dominance explained so much until it went wrong for me. Of course it's always easy to say the method was applied wrong in the first place but I seriously believe these methods are dangerous.

I'm sure fans of his think those of us who question what he does are blinkered and closed minded, but what I fail to understand is how you cannot recognise how far we've come in understanding dogs and using methods of training that take into account how dogs actually learn and that it's not through making them submit.

The techniques used may work but for the completely wrong reason. Why would you risk that?
All I can think is that dominance is an easier explanation than actually finding the true cause and understanding it, especially if that means having to acknowledge our own shortcomings as owners (and I refer to myself there very much).
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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05-02-2010, 03:51 PM
Amen JanieM! You should send your story off to the APDT, I have put a thread up for what they are looking for
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Meg
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05-02-2010, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by tinkladyv View Post
Your right, what a boring world it would be if we all did, but there isn't a need to be aggressive, where does that get anyone?, all it does is upset people or gets their backs up.
There is an odd paradox here .
Some people are being accused of behaving aggressively because they are forcefully questioning those who support the methods used by CMs, methods which involve CM using physical and mental aggression against dogs which have no means of defending themselves again a stronger being.

I find it very odd that people can complain about a little forcefully questioning on a forum and see this as being aggressive while at the same time they fail to see real agression and violence in the methods used by CM . His methods include choking/kicking/apply electric shocks/ and holding a dog up by the throat, all extremely aggressive, violent and unjustified methods of training an animal (video examples of CM using all these methods have been posted and discussed at length on this site).
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Mum To Many
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05-02-2010, 04:03 PM
CM seems to be much worse than I realised, from the 2 programmes I saw I just didn't like the guy or his methods and though he was a bully, I saw him kick a dog on one show more than once and i didn't thik he was doing anything more than scaring the dogs and wasn't reading them or showing that he understood them, but reading this thread it seems so much worse than that, how does he get away with it, from some of the stories he should be facing prosecution,and how can anyone in their right mind think this is acceptable behaviour?
I'm sorry if some of the CM fans or more demure members think i'm being aggressive in saying this, I'm not, just stating my point of view!
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aerolor
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05-02-2010, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
I know - that alone was just an appalling episode from start to finish. His treatment of both animals, the way he almost forced the dog to react even when it was offering appeasement signals...

What I dislike so much is that when the animals communicate with him, he can't or won't read their attempts.

And he puts them in such awful situations, which are totally detrimental to their welfare.

Wys
x
I did not see it, but I can imagine - if you cannot get communication you cannot get far with any dog
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Ramble
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05-02-2010, 07:50 PM
I remember ona different CM thread posting a link to some footage from the episode with the Marley and Me dog show...the dog was offering calming signals and as he turned away from the chicken CM had in his arms, he hit him...madness. The man cannot read the most obvious of canine signals.
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aerolor
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06-02-2010, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I remember ona different CM thread posting a link to some footage from the episode with the Marley and Me dog show...the dog was offering calming signals and as he turned away from the chicken CM had in his arms, he hit him...madness. The man cannot read the most obvious of canine signals.
Hello Ramble - yes I have seen enough - he needs his captain stripes taking off for a while and fining. The lovely old Italian has decided and done it. When he is more ready to be a really good leader he can come back to play. Flipping heck,I hate football - its on all year and soon it is the World Cup.
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