how much depends on handling?

I agree here a good handler make's all the diffrence, I've seen some belting dog's marked down because the handler was a novice and showed it, but to bh the dog is being judged not the handler so i'm split on this one.
And novice's have to start somewhere.

I would have thought the more confident and experienced the handler was the more confidence the dog would be,
But then I guess everyone has to start somewhere , My neice handled one of my girls at a local companion show last year she was a very confident handler with her and imo brought Skye around the ring very well , Skye was very nervous it was her first show and they both done extremley well She made Skye completely feel at ease , Her confidence and ability at handling Skye payed off as Skye won her group And my niece was only starting out as a handler and a natural at it xxdk

It`s been so long since my Junior handling days I`ve pretty much forgotten it all and my balance these days is lousy anyway so in Companion shows I go for the `launch and keep moving` approach and hope the judge takes pity on my dogs for having such a klutz of a lack-of-ring-craft handler

If you look at mcgregorkh`s Crufts video, [ sorry mcG ], she has a very polished, smart, but also very comfortable looking handling style, which compliments Khan without detracting from him and she enables him to stride well at his pace, so shows him at his best.

Khan`s thread with vid link

I think, [ from a non-judges point of view, if its ok to comment ], that`s what really matters, not over-shadowing the dog but looking confident and being able to easily move with the dog rather than the dog have to move with the handler if that makes sense, [ sorry, I`m having yet another cluster headache which makes thinking straight to word things coherently a bit of an impossibility ]

Good handling is essential, although you do need a good dog to handle.

A good handler will know their dogs faults and be able to disguise to a point the bad , but accentuate the good.

Obviously a good judge will be able to pick up the bad points of any given dog, but for the whole picture a good handler can make a average dog stand out in the ring.

I think a good dog will do well (if under an understanding judge ), if handled by a novice owner, but a bad handler will hinder a good dog.

Think to some extent it depends on the judge, some will not be put off by poor handling a good dog is not changed by the handling but sometimes if poor handling comes with an untrained dog assessment can be very difficult.

Think from the judging point of view it is worse when a dog is over handed, when it seems the handler does everything they can to spoil the dogs looks and performance. You know the sort of thing I mean, the dogs stops and stand foursquare and looks great but the handler is not happy and starts to move legs and head until the poor thing is totally off balance. Then they move around the ring either with the lead so tight that the dog’s front legs are not in contact with the floor or on a loose lead but then keeps pulling the dog towards the handler.

Novice handling is not such a problem because they are unsure they leave things alone so a good dog looks a good dog and a poor one is displayed in it’s full nastiness.

However a skilled handler with a good dog is a joy but with a bad dog an irritant because they will not do as asked because they know what you asked for will show their exhibit for what it is, horrid.

I recently judged a Grand puppy who was giving his poor handler such a bad time I saw three or four strides of decent movement and was able to stack the dog myself whilst going over it. I ended up giving him a Puppy Group placing which his poor novice handler couldn't understand bless her.

The other side of the coin was at Crufts this year where I had some very good handlers from overseas. Stacked, some dogs looked superb - but I will not allow a dog to be strung up in my ring and they had to move again on a loose lead and at a slower pace. The dogs in question absolutely fell apart.

Basically, any judge worth their salt will look past the handling and concentrate solely on the dog. Looking round the ring every now and again while the dogs are waiting to be judged helps We all try and handle our dogs to the best of our ability and try and make them look as good as possible. I'd say the only time handling came into things in a larger way would be in a Champ show Group or BIS line-up where you're really splitting hairs.

Debs

Thanks guys for the posts, its quite intresting really, My view is, Kaos is a fairly well put together dog, he stands well, you would need to work hard to make him stand badly, he just seems to fall quite naturaly into a nice stand, he moves well naturaly too, but I guess if he had a handler that aksed him to do things diff, he would as he is well trained, so if you ask him to stand a diff way he will, so I guess training comes into it to, a well trained show dog may hold a novice handler up in the ring so long as they dont mess around with the dog, an average trained dog who is well put together, may look bad as it doent really know the job inside out due to lack of training,,

Quite hard to hide anything in Europe as you free stand your dogs because you double handle out here, unlike in England where it's more one to one hands on showing, a good handler can show an average dog and make it show well but a good handler/breeder won't show a ropey dog as it's there reputation on the line.


Mo and the Gang

I think personally a lot more is on training of the dog than handling. The better trained and confident the dog the less 'interference' it needs from the handler and would do fine with a novice, but a novice handling and an untrained dog isn't a good combo whereas a good handler would do a lot better.

I'm probably not explaining what I mean very well (i'm at uni, lol, i'm bored stiff) but to give you an e.g. when I first started at ringcraft with Maddy I met a lass there who I became good friends with and she was a brilliant handler and her dog (HWV) was a natural in the ring. She's even taught him to move each of his legs on command which I was amazed with! She'd say 'back left' and he'd move it! Anyway he could have went in the ring himself and do it all without a handler I think and we used to swap dogs quite often, he would help me with learning how to handle and confidence and she would help Maddy in teh same way. At first Maddy and I were a nightmare duo together but the difference in her attitude and therefore her movement and general stature was so different with my friend compared to with me. And of course my pal's dog didn't mind who was on the end of the lead bless him, he was a star, got his JW at a very young age. In the end we did quite well in the short time Maddy was shown so this was an asset to both of us.