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staffer
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15-12-2006, 12:49 AM

Banned breeds in the uk

what are your views
we have 4 types of banned breeds in the uk and any meeting the type of below
so why are they still being imported
and being sold openly on to the public?
how are they getting away with it

1)american pit bull terrier
2)tosa
3)Filia Brasilia
4)Dogo Argentino

and any meeting this type
Phil
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15-12-2006, 01:22 AM
Good post - i'll try to answer your question but lead onto a another question if that's ok...

I'm sure you will get far more imformative reply's than mine to this thread (and i'm taking your word that these are the only banned breeds - any others?)

Your 2 questions............................

1. why are they still being imported ?

Ban a breed and all of a sudden everybody (the wrong people) want one. Because they are banned the numbers available drop so the the price goes through the roof. They then become a worthwhile risk to import.

2. How are they getting away with it ?.....

Simple - Authorities are not giving it the attention it deserves.


Just to follow - should certain (any) breeds be banned at all ?

Phil
AnneUK
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15-12-2006, 01:24 AM
You don't tend to see many true bred Tosa, Fillas, Dogos. Pit Pulls yes and this is due to a law that is difficult to enforce; there is no test you can do to check the animalís breed. A specialist Vet has to take measurements photos etc and then it's down to the vetís individual opinion as to whether it is a banned breed. With so many crossbreeds they can never be 100% sure.
Phil
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15-12-2006, 01:47 AM
please see my lat post (2) in this thread for my views on the original post (questions) but qick search reveals that the following......
section1 Dogs Act UK prohibits 4 types of dog:

the Pit Bull Terrier
the Japanese tosa
the Dogo Argentino
the Fila Brasileiro

It is an offence to own or keep any of the above types of dog, unless it is on the Index of Exempted Dogs and is in compliance with the requirements. In any event it is an offence to breed from, sell or exchange (even as a gift) such a dog, irrespective of whether it has been placed on the Index of Exempted Dogs.

bah blah blah...

quick look on the net and.......

Breed of the dog
The Dogo was created for hunting, with great physical strength and a keen determination to not allow its quarry to escape. One thing that is commonly over looked in all of the breeds listed here is loyalty to the family. The dogos stays at feet of their owner and their family members, great with kids and is not a bark at nothing breed.


1. Fighting Dog of Cordoba, to which Dr. Martinez added blood from
2. The Pointer to give him a keen sense of smell, which was essential for hunting,

3. The Boxer added vivacity and gentleness,

4. The Bull Terrier lent his fearlessness,

5. The Great Dane his size,

6. The Bulldog gave him an ample chest and boldness,

7. The Irish Wolfhound brought its instinct as a hunter of wild game,

8. The Dogue de Bordeaux contributed its powerful jaws.

9. The Great Pyrenees gives him its white coat and

10. The Spanish Mastiff gave him its quota of power



Dogos are a big powerful dog that has to have obedience training at an early age, with heavy socialization training around people and other pets especially dogs. At an early age socialization helps to prevent aggression. One major point… obedience training is a must with all large dog breeds (over 30lbs). One can readily see that a small child walking the big family dog could be put in danger if pulled out into the street because the dog hasn't been properly disciplined. Another thing that many people must take heed of is that, no matter how well the Dogo (or any other large dog) interacts with children in the family, children do not belong anywhere near where the animal's feeding dishes are stored. This is a natural territorial instinct area with large dogs that may not be overcome by any amount of training.



Dogo Argentino reputation for aggression is greatly over exaggerated. If you've heard of this breed at all you will hear everything from " I can get my dog to pull down trees…" to "My dog just took on four other pit bulls and tore them apart…" You will also have heard horror stories on the media about how this dog (aside from many other breeds) is nothing but a vicious terrible monster that loves to tear apart people " just because ". Most all dogs do exactly what they are taught or aloud by the owner to do.
The truth is that any large dog must be treated with the proper respect and discipline if it is to be put in any social setting with humans or other pet type animals. The only problem with large dogs is the ignorance of the owner. Now, we are not stating that the Dogo can't be dangerous, what we are saying is that it is the owner who is mishandling the dog that creates dangerous behaviors and situations between a large dog and the general population. Practices such as guard dog conditioning (where a trainer teaches the animal to attack humans), frequent beatings, deprivation of affection, food, water or shelter (where the shelter is not appropriately large or clean enough), are all contributing factors to a dog displaying inappropriately aggressive behavior.

Contact.........................
Nicci_L
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15-12-2006, 09:10 AM
There's a very nice lady on my forum involved with Fila rescue in the States, apparently only a couple out of hundreds of Fila's go onto to being rehabilitated through the rescue most have to be put to sleep upon arriving at rescue because they are so aggressive and hard to work with. I can't think why someone would purposely want to own one of these dogs from what I have read within her posts they sound like timebombs waiting to go off and should only be owned by the most experienced dog handlers.

Maybe this is why a few sneak them in - the 'aggression' appeal to the wrong sort
Tee
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15-12-2006, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Nicci_L View Post
There's a very nice lady on my forum involved with Fila rescue in the States, apparently only a couple out of hundreds of Fila's go onto to being rehabilitated through the rescue most have to be put to sleep upon arriving at rescue because they are so aggressive and hard to work with. I can't think why someone would purposely want to own one of these dogs from what I have read within her posts they sound like timebombs waiting to go off and should only be owned by the most experienced dog handlers.

Maybe this is why a few sneak them in - the 'aggression' appeal to the wrong sort
But isn't that down to bad breeding and upbringing? No dog is born a monster or a timebomb, they are taught this behaviour although some dogs may be inherently dog-aggressive.

Back to the original post, I think i've only come across Pit Bulls here, they are easy to get hold of because people are still breeding them. As mentioned, it's not always as that straightforward when identifying breeds. The owners of pit bulls could turn around and claim that their breed is a Staff cross. Only an experienced eye would be able to tell and it's not as though the police or other authority patrol the streets looking for pit bulls or pit types.
gaznweebeasties
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15-12-2006, 12:33 PM
a person i work with just saw me reading this thread and asked me which of the four was the most aggressive?

he had only heard of pitbulls so assumed it would be them, personally i have no idea but have to admit i am curious seen as i thought the majority of behavioural problems, such as aggression, were down to the owners fault and so it would depend entirely on the individual dog and its owner as to how aggressive the dog would be.

i mean i know some breeds were bred specifically for fighting and so it will have an instinct to fight and be aggressive but i was thinking if something like a bad temperament can be bred into a dog, surely with some hard, dedicated work it could be bred out of them?

please let me know if im right in what im thinking or whether im just being naive
Nicci_L
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15-12-2006, 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by Tee View Post
But isn't that down to bad breeding and upbringing? No dog is born a monster or a timebomb, they are taught this behaviour although some dogs may be inherently dog-aggressive.
Nope I wouldn't say so, the breed is a naturally aggressive dog breed..

Taken from dog breed info and the lady I know would back up what has been written..

Some breeders breed the Fila to have a temperament in which they say is more like the original Fila Brasileiro temperament. One breeder who claims to breed to the original Fila type states, "You cannot socialize a Fila to like people. You can obedience train them so that you are in control, but you cannot socialize them to like people. A Fila WILL attack a stranger. Period. If they have the proper temperament, they WILL. "Ojeriza" translates to "Hatred and loathing of strangers". You do not make them mean and vicious... they ARE...


Breeders are trying to tone down the temperament of the Fila, they are still very much so a work on progress in the temperament stakes.
staffer
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16-12-2006, 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by AnneUK View Post
You don't tend to see many true bred Tosa, Fillas, Dogos. Pit Pulls yes and this is due to a law that is difficult to enforce; there is no test you can do to check the animalís breed. A specialist Vet has to take measurements photos etc and then it's down to the vetís individual opinion as to whether it is a banned breed. With so many crossbreeds they can never be 100% sure.
if we see them or not the thing is they are here and they are being bred and they are being openly advertised for sale
Patch
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16-12-2006, 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by staffer View Post
if we see them or not the thing is they are here and they are being bred and they are being openly advertised for sale
Where have you seen adverts for them ? I have seen ads for Pits however they usually turn out not to be Pits at all though the police in Tyneside did do an investigation on an alledged Pit breeder recently. Haven`t heard any more on that one as to whether there was a prosecution or not or if the dogs really were Pits.
I do recall seeing on the national news when someone tried to import a Tosa. The airport authorities held the dog while the case was investigated and the dog was returned to source and was kept at the airport kennels until the return flight was arranged.
Animal workers at the airports and docks which allow animal transit are trained in these things because of the regulations, plus vets attending might notice certain breeds and would raise a flag about them, plus paperwork on pet passports and quarantine would pick up on illegal imports unless all the vets doing the paperwork abroad are being paid off to lie about the animals they are blood testing and chipping etc.
Of course, if you know for definate that there are illegal imports and litters around, presumably you are doing something about them as well as ear croppers...?
If you believe they are being smuggled in to avoid the authorities then you have an absolute duty to do something about it unless you want to see the possibility of rabies in this country ?
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