So - Dobermanns.....

Can Dobie peeps give me some advice here please?
Prince is (compared to GSDs) far more stubborn. Where the Shepherd will, if you say Jump (for example), launch himself joyfully into the air because he is a Good Dog, Prince thinks `Why?`. If the reward is apparent, he will leap away like a good`un. If not, he will stare in disbelief.
is this normal for the breed?

Also - he goes from laid back happy pup to Big Girls Blouse at the drop of a hat and, if allowed, winds himself up into a state of gibbering hysteria.
Is this a product of poor socialisation or is it a Dobie `thing`?

He is making progress - I just want to make sure I`m not expecting too much too fast.
Thanks.

fraid it's pretty normal, sorry they do usually want to know what's in it for them. Syd will usually do whatever I ask him to do, once to prove he can and he understands what I'm asking for and then it's " what do you want me to do that for, I did it already"
None of mine do big girls blouse tbh but I know a few that do, I think it tends to be lack of socialisation combined with their inbuilt sensitivity, my two girls are actually quite reckless given half a chance they give me grey hairs with their leap first and look later attitude.

******.....

Reminds me of something someone said about Min Pins - that just when you think you've eventually got them to do something you wanted them to do - they sort of give you the impression that they only did it because THEY WERE GOING TO ANYWAY!

They're easily bored and don't like too much repetition, I found it easier to go through a variety of commands rather than concentrate on any one thing, mix it up a bit and break up the training with something daft, they have a great sense of fun and do daft extremely well. When Syd was a pup and we attended a series of group training sessions he did a great impression of a dog ignoring everything that was going on and spent half his time asleep or so they thought, a Dobermann never takes his eye off the ball and as soon as it was his turn he'd get up perform perfectly and go straight back to appearing to ignore everything going on around him

Its a dobermann thing for sure they always like to see whats in it for them first and after two or three repetitions they get bored and look at you as if to say "i've done it already were you not paying attention"
In training class with Mertha while everyone else does sit and stay for eight or more times i have to do it three times then break it up with a stand or something

Madison is fine out and about but she can make herself jump indoors so easily - Merths crate is the best for that as Mads wont go in it cos the door dared to move once when she was trying to get a chew out so now when she gets close to it if she even thinks the door is going to move she jumps away from it and runs away!

A guy in the pet shop yesterday told me his friend has a dobe and was out walking him when a car door banged shut and his dobe jumped over a wall away from the noise pulling his owner with him, not sure how well socialised he was though but he managed to break his owners rib - ouch.

I'd say thats pretty normal, Loui has a definate, 'I know it, I done it, you saw it, get a grip' attitude at times

not quite so sure he should go from laid back to BGB quite so easily but given his start and add to it the fact that they probably take 3x as long as a GSD to 'mature' thats probably why, I would think anyway. HOWEVER, I have noticed with Loui that if you move on with something too soon he will try to almost displace...maybe deflect would be a better word, by acting like a hyper loony, to avoid a situation and change to something else...to thers it looks really loopy but I know thats when he needs to go back a step, not sure if its anything like that with Prince?

Times when Loui has acted shaky and whingy its basically a bit of attention seeking on the surface that sounds harsh but if you knew him...for example he does this when he is jealous of the cat..

the gibbering hysteria also happens here when he is really wanting something he cant have, to others they think theres something wrong, to me its cos I know Ive just made him walk past his girlfriend without them having a play....bit like a toddler, sound and look like someone killing them when in actual fact they werent allowed to take a free Mars bar...

I definately agree with the others, they learn fast and dont like repetition, they dont see the point, not going by Loui anyway. I think of it like a teacher making you write apple a hundred times when you know how to spell it....it keeps me sane

ah - that makes sense, thanks. Does impulse control stuff (Watch / Sit / Wait etc) help at all?

Tbh, it does but only to a point, I have actually found that just speaking to him and asking him to do stuff works better. So for example walking by a dog, whilst telling him in asqueaky voice how good he is...but I use different words (well done) If he's on the right track just not looking at me etc and it seems to help, I also found that theres a limit to how long he will sit and watch while other stuffs going on but asking him to sit, watch - paw, down he it's more than happy..being busy is what they seem to like. Being busy with you all the better but you really do have to keep them busier than the distraction when young, if you see what I mean?

I found lots of clicker games on walks really helped. So instead of him deciding to go to the end of the lead..isend him then he'd look, good look, then he'd come got the treat. Good here, click/treat, and it sort of progressed to adding in delays from there.

Basically think of it backwards and then chain together that seemed to work better for us