Doggy psychology needed! -Weeing when left by dog walker

Hi,

We rehomed our 20 month-old Frenchie, Claude just over 2 months ago. He's settled in and is almost house trained apart from when he is brought back by the dog walker.

When we leave him in the mornings to go to work he is fine and not stressed about us going (he has a kong that keeps him busy). But after his lunchtime dog walk with lots of doggies he goes for a big wee in the afternoon, even if he is left for just an hour.

We tried to break the cycle by taking up his water in the afternoons and it did help but obviously restricting his water intake is not a long-term solution. So, we've put it back down this week and he's back to weeing. They're not small marking wees but big ones and they are either by the door where he has access to the balcony where he is allowed to toilet when let out, or by the front door where the dog walker leaves him. However, sometimes it's in the kitchen which isn't by a door at all.

Why is he doing this? I don't think it's stress as he seems fine when we come back to him in the evening. Is it just a protest? Is he just gulping too much water down after his walk? (he does tend to gorge on water). How do we break this cycle?

He know's it's wrong as he takes himself to his crate when we get home and he know's he will be told off. And we praise him loads when he goes outside. It's just this time when he now wees inside and I'm keen to understand why he's doing it to help him stop.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Is the dog walked? Where? Offlead? Do you have evidence for this?
I`d be following the dogwalker to see what was going on, personally.

Yes, he is also usually out for more than his allocated 1 hour. The dog walker walks all the local dogs and we got lots of good references from everyone. And I've seen him out with other dogs - he walks all day. No car or van to pick them up.

He walks them on lead as we're in London and he doesn't want to loose a dog (it makes us feel more comfortable too) and he says that he does go to the toilet with him (and gets praised for it). Perhaps he is more marking than anything else but when he didn't have access to water in the afternoons he didn't wee which indicates that he is emptying himself on the walk?

I just can't figure it out and therefore how to help him stop it. He is so proud of himself when we can just come home and greet him instead of having to go through the whole telling off and cleaning up routine.

And I have been using the odor eliminators with the enzymes - although I don't think they're totally worth their money sometimes. I've left it on all night before and then he'll just go in the same place.

I suppose I should also mention that he has been neutered and usually squats when he usually needs to go although he cocks when he's marking outside.

Hope that information helps spark any ideas..

My first thought is are you sure that he's weeing when out with the dog walker? If the dog walker has other dogs with him, or maybe takes your dog to places that make him anxious, he may not want to or be able to wee.

If your dog gorges on water when he gets back from the walk, what about asking the dog walker to provide him with water halfway through the walk ~ offer him water little & often.

When the dog walker returns your dog, does he stay with him for a few minutes? Wait till he's had a drink, allow your dog access to the balcony?

Also, there's absolutely no point in telling your dog off about a weeing accident after the event. Your dog probably won't have any idea why you'rr telling it off ~ all it will know is that sometimes when you come home, you're cross ~ hence taking himself off to his crate when he realises you're not happy, but greeting you happily when you come home full of praise because there's no puddle of wee!

I think you'd be better off looking in more detail at what's happening with the dog walker before you blame your dog. What happens on the days that you walk your dog & the dog walker doesn't?

Hi,

Yes, I agree - I will have another chat with the dog walker to see if he is emptying himself on the walk properly. And good idea about keeping him hydrated on the walk - I'll buy him one of those dispensers perhaps.

From speaking with the dog walker it does seem like he's having a great time on his walks. He's not always walked with the same dogs and as he's so well behaved and relaxed with them he often gets walked with other, more difficult ones. I do believe he even has a girlfriend A white frenchie called Coco. So by all accounts he is loving his walks. But I will sit down with the dog walker and try and get a full picture.

When we're around or have walked him he doesn't go inside. He's not always perfect but he certainly knows where he should go and we're just working on reading his signs. He's not allowed the roam of the house though - he hasnt reached that level of trust...yet!

Do you think the weeing could be a sign or protest? I have thought about getting the dog walker to re-fill his kong for when he leaves but as he walks a few dogs we can't ask him to have to trapse into our house everytime and take extra time to do things like take him out onto the balcony. I certainly don't want to have to resort to Claude being allowed on the balcony straight after a walk. We're trying to teach him that the time to go is on walks and not to expect a trip to the balcony on the return. We take him on the balcony first thing in the morning/last thing at night.

Re: telling off. I know that it is the school of thought nowadays to teach through positive association and we are trying to praise him for all the good and ignore any unwanted behavior but I'm afraid we do still take him to the wee and say a firm no and then take him to the balcony so that he knows that's what we want. He usually also goes out there too. So, when he retreats to his crate it is only when he has wee'd. He is a smart little dog and knows that is not the behavior we want from him. I know that there may be people here that disagree with any telling off but in my judgement it is not giving him confusing signals. I am happy to alter my attitude to this if I see that it is causing him confusion or anguish. I'd like to think of myself as firm and fair.

Hopefully you will not think too badly of me.

Hi Degaulle welcome to Dogsey I agree with the others, I have my doubts that your little dog is relieved himself when out on the walk. Is there any way the dog walker could take him out individually even if it is for a shorter period of time giving him chance to stop and sniff and walk at his own pace?
Restricting his water intake can make the matter worse, it can cause the urine to become concentrated and this can irritate the bladder leading to increased urination and even health problems.
If he tends to 'gorge on water' have you had him checked by a vet to rule out any medical conditions.

No he does not know he has done wrong, dogs have no sense of self and don't experince remorse, he is probably picking up on your disapproving body language .Telling him off can make matters worse, it could cause him to be afraid to relieve himself when humans are around because he associates the smell or presence of urine with humans anger and his own fear of punishment. Better to clean up throughly with a none ammonia based cleaner like biological washing powder and say nothing, no word no eye contact.

I would review your dog walking before anything else .

similar thoughts here. Ask the dog walker to ensure your dog has a good drink and toilet access before leaving him and it may help if the walker followed your routine of leaving him with a kong (of course, splitting the amount of food between the two daily kongs)

....just one other thought you say you have only had him for 2 months, has he always done this or is it a new behaviour. If it is new try to see if anything has changed in his routine, also think about a health check .
If not new in his previous home he may have had a different routine which he had got use to, maybe charge the timings of the dog walker and have him taken out a little later

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

It has only been 2 months and he is doing so well so I'm sure we'll figure this out in time.

He did have a different routine at his old home. He was crated all day with a break at lunchtime so it was obviously a lot clearer to him when to hold etc. It's just strange to me why he doesnt wee in his first 'alone' time from morning to lunchtime when the walker comes. The only time we crate him is at night although we will start to leave his crate open then in time (once he's houstrained).

So, I will speak with the dog walker to try and get him to praise him more when he does go on the walk. He's very food orientated so training him is quite simple and will also speak to him about giving him water on the walk so he's not parched. The gorging thing I think was partly due to stress as he is doing that less and less. Hopefully he will realise that he always has access to water when he wants it.

Biological washing powder sounds like a good trick - certainly cheaper than the sprays. Thanks I will try. And I will think about ignoring it for a few days when we get back in to see if that helps. Will report back in a few days.

Thanks again

What is the pattern over the week-end when you're not working? It seems very strange to me, almost as if he's forgotten to pick your dog up en-route! I'd be setting up a security camera, but that's me!!!

My dogs drink loads on their return from our 2nd walk of the day, and yet they never have a wee until around 5pm and all the water was drunk at 12 mid-day