Regressing? (a bit long sorry!)

As you know we were a bit worried about Rocco when we first got him, but with lots of praise and some training etc, he's really coming out of himself and is shaping up to be a fantastic dog.

We decided to crate train him, and at first it was going well. The first night he was a bit vocal but no mess in his bed the next morning. 2nd night, no noise, no mess, and so it went. We're into his second week of it now and he's started to go nuts. I was up at 4:45am and then again at 6:15am with him. He was making so much noise and was throwing himself around so much, I was worried that he was going to hurt himself.

He's also started the new habit of pooing and eating it if he gets the chance to.

It all seems to be going backwards, and just when I think Ive got the measure on his routine and timings, it all changes. He's not interested on doing it on the training pads any more, all he wants to do with those it rip them to shreds so I don't even bother with them anymore because I'm worried that if he eats them they'll make him sick.

The way it was working was that I was getting up with him at 6:30, he would go outside and pee, then come back in for some breakfast, I'd put him outside again but he wouldn't do anything. Then he'd have a snooze and a bit of a play until 10am then go outside and poo and pee and so the day went on. Now he's just all over the place, we're getting no sleep because of his constant howling, plus he's found his bark and wants everyone to know about it.

I'm guessing that I just need to carry on and eventually we'll get there, but it's sad that we seemed to have had it cracked.

Sorry Natalie, I am not understanding you..
You say you decided to crate train and all was going well?
Are you leaving Rocco shut in the crate at night?
If so where do training pads come into this?
When/where does he do and eat poo?
How old is he now?

Natalie have a look at this thread

http://www.dogweb.co.uk/talkdogs/showthread.php?t=8465

I gave up in the end, but there's some good advice on there

Good luck - it's hard

Yes Rocco is in his crate at night, he's in for about 6 hours, and as I said it was all going really well, but he seemed to go a little bit backwards and was howling (having said all of this, he had a good night last night).

Occasionally, I put him in his crate if I have to do something like go to the supermarket (I would take him with me but it's too hot to leave him in the car). It seems to be on these occasions that he eats poo. I try to stick to our schedule with feeding and going outside, but somethimes no matter how often I take him out, he doesn't do anything. This is normally when he eats it. If we're in the park and he finds any he normally wants to eat it too so we have to watch him like a hawk!

I was leaving a training pad beside the back door that I take him outside through, just so that if for any reason I didn't get to him in time to take him outside he might be encouraged to do it there. I was doing this on advice given from a dog trainer here, but have given up on it because all he wants to do with it is rip it to shreds!

He's 14 weeks now, and I don't think we're doing badly on the whole, but it worried me that he'd started the howling and barking. A couple of people sugessted to me that it might be something to do with him getting more attached to us and wanting to be with us instead of in his crate? I don't think he's afraid of his crate or that he views it as punishment because he goes in there for naps during the day.

I have to admit I could never get Saffy to settle in a crate, eventually we gave in and let her have the run of the kitchen at night, although we did have to make it dog proof. As for the poo eating Saffy went through a stage of this and I thought it would never end but it did with perseverance and Deter tablets.

Thanks Tuti,

I just read that thread and now realise that what we're going through is probably perfectly normal.

We had our toilet trip a little later today, 6:45, which I can cope with, he normally want to go outside around 10am but today he's sleeping at my feet, so going to put him out when he wakes up.

We'll get it cracked eventually!

Natalie, at 14 weeks he's still a teeny tiny baby. He'll go through tons of phases yet!

Crate training isn't difficult, you just have to persevere. Leaving him alone in a crate at night is a whole different thing to leaving him alone in the daytime. I always get them used to being crated in the day by first staying in the same room as them, then standing outside the room, then moving to stand outside the house - gradually increasing the time he's crated by a few mins. For each stage, only let him out of the crate when he's nice and quiet, and not playing up. It takes time and patience to crate train a dog, but it's not too difficult and is definitely worth it. Don't just put him in the crate and expect him to be fine though - it's got to be done in short amounts throughout the day, like practice.

Lots of puppies go through the poo eating phase and most stop by themselves, but he might be eating it through anxiety when you're out, so if you've not crate trained slowly and in stages I'd suggest you go back to basics with that. As well as getting him used to being left alone in it, also feed and play with him in the crate. If he passes out through tiredness after play, gently place him in the crate with the door open. He'll get the idea it's a nice, safe place to be. Don't view it as a cage, see it as a nice safe bed for him.

If you're going down to him at night when he cries, it's no surprise he's still crying! The crate should be safe enough for him anyway, but if you're worried make sure he's not in there with a collar on or anything he could hurt himself with, then arm yourself with a large dollop of dedication and a good set of industrial earplugs, empty him late at night and just ignore any howling or thrashing around. Whatever his aim is to get you to him, he's succeeding.

Feel free to PM me if you want to

Becs

Hi Natalie. I had not realised Rocco was so young, he is only 3.5 months then and is not physicaly mature enough to control his bowels and bladder for long periods so he may well be crying to go out, he will not want to soil in the crate . I would go and take him out if he cries..no fuss or playing just praise when he performs, then put him back in the crate and ignore the cries. As he gets older he will be able to wait longer. If forced to eliminate in the crate he may well eat it out of fear to hide it . I do not like the pads by the door idea..they are like newspaper and a waste of time, they encourage the dog to go in the house and not outside they send a confuse message to the dog..should it be going inside or outside?.
Crates.
As I see it, if you are crate training a young puppy and shutting it in you have to be prepared to take it out when it needs to go, it is not physically mature enough to wait for long periods and it is unfair to make a puppy soil its bed. If you are not prepared to get up with the puppy you should leave the crate door open so it will not soil the bed and be prepared to clean up any accidents. If you make the puppy soil its bed you are encouraging a nervous pup to eat the poo to get rid of it. This is just my thoughts on crates
Eating poo is natural for dogs but not a good thing as it spreads worms/infection. Always clear up any poo before the puppy can get to eat it and never scold or draw attention to it, you can also try putting pineapple in the puppies food, or you can get a produce from the pet shop, this deters eating poo. Dogs also eat poo if they have worms.
Hope the poor little chap is eating and better soon

He dosn't cry through the night, it's when we first put him in, just after he's empited himself. That's when he was throwing himself around. Once he stops, he's fine, I was just worried that he was going to hurt himself. We put him in there around midnight and I'm normally up with him around 6ish.

So far, he's never eaten poop at night, just during the day if he's in for a short period (about 30 to 45 mins).

We've tried a different food today and he's eating it like there's no tomorrow. I think he was having an off day yesterday, he seemed a bit down, but better today.

Hi Natalie it sound as if Rocco is doing pretty well considering how shy he was to start with, if he has been out before going in the crate and cries you just have to ignore it , have you tried covering half/ the crate so he can't see so much? That might help. My guess is the eating poo will stop when he is properly housetrained and has more confidence . I would try to boost his confidence if you can by giving lots of praise at every oportunity