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pippam
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26-07-2012, 07:16 AM
Originally Posted by nickmcmechan View Post
At 8 months your GSD is likely to be in adolescence or getting there. Doubt it's dominance.

10 minutes training walk is probably not enough. I'm out with my two for about 2 hours per day through the week. I stop about 10 to 20 time on each walk and do some training exercise. (sit / down / stand / come / speak etc). I think that's more fun than the drill you have to go through?

Most of the dominance based training involves suppressing your dogs drive and often involves aversive techniques. I'm guessing the reason your even starting the thread is that you are not entirely comfortable with the techniques being taught and something inside is telling you it's not quite right?

E.g. if my dog was anxious the last thing I would do would be to walk it on a tight lead. Indeed, I would use that technique if I wanted to wind my dog up.

What are your main issues with your dog?
As the owner of a nervous dog I can honestly say I aggree with this on the part about the lead. Nervous/anxious dogs are much more likely to be subject to fear aggressian I think. With a shorter lead he can't take flight if he feels frightend or threatend by something his only other option would be to confront the problem with barking or aggression.
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Milk maid
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26-07-2012, 07:27 AM
I must admit I find the tethering and the tight lead walking very strange, as far as I can see it serves no purpose other than to dominate. Do give the clicker training a go it can work really well.
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sarah1983
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26-07-2012, 01:13 PM
The tethering I can kind of understand if it's a short term measure to teach the dog to settle. I crated Spencer for a couple of hours each evening for a few weeks as he'd never learned just to chill out and was on the go from the moment we got up until the moment we went to sleep. I felt a bit mean doing it but figured that since he was getting plenty of exercise and interaction a couple of hours enforced chill out time would benefit him and us. He no longer needs to be crated to settle.

Like Nickmcmechan I'm out with Spen for a couple of hours each day and I do a lot of obedience practise on those walks. Instead of using the time to drill in what a naughty word means or correct behaviours I don't want I focus on rewarding the behaviours I DO want. It makes it a hell of a lot more fun for the dog if they're able to earn rewards instead of just avoid being told when they're doing something wrong. It's just a small switch in focus but in my experience gets much, much better results

As I say, I don't do the whole dominance, packleader thing. I don't see that it's necessary and in all honesty I've found that once you start looking at all your dogs and your own behaviour in terms of dominance it gets silly. I don't want to constantly be worrying about whether something my dog does might be him seeking dominance. Nor do I want to constantly worry about whether my own behaviour is sending signals that I may be a weak leader. For me that takes all the joy out of dog ownership.
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sperera
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27-07-2012, 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by nickmcmechan View Post
At 8 months your GSD is likely to be in adolescence or getting there. Doubt it's dominance.

10 minutes training walk is probably not enough. I'm out with my two for about 2 hours per day through the week. I stop about 10 to 20 time on each walk and do some training exercise. (sit / down / stand / come / speak etc). I think that's more fun than the drill you have to go through?

Most of the dominance based training involves suppressing your dogs drive and often involves aversive techniques. I'm guessing the reason your even starting the thread is that you are not entirely comfortable with the techniques being taught and something inside is telling you it's not quite right?

E.g. if my dog was anxious the last thing I would do would be to walk it on a tight lead. Indeed, I would use that technique if I wanted to wind my dog up.

What are your main issues with your dog?
Yes I do have some concens about the training method my training is advising I use. After doing some limited research and watching some vids on the net i am doubting the whole pack animal dominance mind frame that is pushed on me by the trainer.

The main issue i initially had was Simba jumping on me, because of his size and power my children were scared of him because of this. This seems to have somewhat settled down but still happens occasionally.

Another problem was Simba would try to walk me as apposed to walking with me. I cant comment on how we are going because I havent taken him outside the back yard in almost 3 weeks as per my trainers request.

My ultimate goal is to be able to confortably walk simba without him pulling my arm off and also to be able to take him to a park or an open area, let him off the leash, throw a ball and have a play with him without him running off or chasing someone/something else. I hope this is a realistic expectation/goal.
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sperera
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27-07-2012, 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by nickmcmechan View Post
I checked out their website and it looks like a lot of their training philosophies are good, however I still wouldn't walk and anxious dog on a tight leash.

Thought it was good they stated they will not use harsh techniques and advocate reward based training
thank you for looking into this, its much appreciated to get some reassurance
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sperera
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27-07-2012, 12:26 AM
Originally Posted by Milk maid View Post
I must admit I find the tethering and the tight lead walking very strange, as far as I can see it serves no purpose other than to dominate. Do give the clicker training a go it can work really well.
thanks for the recomendation. I had a chat to the wife last night and we have decided to continue with the second lesson with our current trainer, contue her training recomendations for approx 2 weeks, if we are still not happy we are doing the right thing I have already made contact with another local trainer who uses the clicker method who I will employ.
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nickmcmechan
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27-07-2012, 07:06 AM
Originally Posted by sperera View Post
The main issue i initially had was Simba jumping on me, because of his size and power my children were scared of him because of this.

Another problem was Simba would try to walk me as apposed to walking with me.

I cant comment on how we are going because I havent taken him outside the back yard in almost 3 weeks as per my trainers request. more poor advice from your trainer

throw a ball and have a play with him without him running off or chasing someone/something else.
Your expectations are realistic, however you need to think about what you want to train. None on your dogs behaviours are unusual and indeed they are not dominant behaviours.

First off, when your dog jumps teach it to sit instead, i.e. teach it what you want to do instead. Your kids will have fun teaching this too.

Leash walking is a different exercise and we could write a book on that one. Check this out: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/541

Throwing a ball and returning it. You are asking the dog to go out and chase, pick up, hold the ball, run back, sit, give it to you. I make this point in all the component parts as there is a lot of training that goes into retrieve. However, my experience (observation and ownership) tells me that GSDs are quite good at learning this one. This might help: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/3107

Recall. Not running off after other things. I would suggest you work hard on getting your dog to come back to you with mucho enthisiasm. For my GSD I just swing his tug toy and command 'come' . Now all I have to do is say the command nd he comes back to me. I have recalled him from chasing wild animals. Check these links (thanks for posting them SB):


http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/RECALL.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/reliable_recall.pdf

http://www.clickerdogs.com/perfectrecall.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/listofreinforcers.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/distracti...yourrecall.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm

http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_f...e%20recall.pdf

http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/teaching-come/

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-...y-dog-chasing/

And, please, start threads on each individual issue as well

Hope all that helps. Have fun training it all and get the family involved too
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sarah1983
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27-07-2012, 09:58 AM
Did they explain why you're not to walk him? Personally I would have thought this would only contribute to any problems you have with him. Not to mention possibly cause other problems because he's not getting the socialisation he should be if he's never leaving the garden.
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Pindonkey
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27-07-2012, 08:12 PM
I have only skimmed through this but i really recommend clicker training!

It is IMO and in my own experience the best and fastest way to train a dog! I have used numerous methods,inculding the whole dominate your dog crap and i must say that i have never had this much success with training before!

Clicker training is so rewarding and its 100% positive and effective!
I never got a book or went to any trainers but i did,and still do watch KIKOPUP on YOUTUBE!!! She is amazing,and is my favourite dog trainer,only if she would come to ireland!!
Here is her list of free videos from her website,
http://www.kikopup.com/Dogmantics/Free_Video_List.html
And she is putting up new stuff soon!
Another good site on clicker training is this one,
www.clickersolutions.com

Its very usefull and more helpful sites inculde,
www.deesdogs.com
www.cleverdogcompany.com
www.clickerdogs.com

And there are lots more out there!! Channels on youtube include,
Kikopup
-http://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup
-http://www.youtube.com/kikopupextras (second channel)

multianimalclicker
-http://www.youtube.com/user/MultiAnimalcrackers

Clickerdogs
-http://www.youtube.com/user/ClickerDogs

Nanabordercollie
-http://www.youtube.com/user/NanaBorderCollie

pamelamarxsen
-http://www.youtube.com/user/pamelamarxsen
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steph52
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28-07-2012, 01:29 AM
i've had my gsd girl for 4 weeks ( had gsd's before) & when she came into our home she suffered seperation anxiety, peed when touched etc. i can see where the whisper technique may work .. but i found normal volume,calm tone works .. it gives a general consistency with what is normal throughout the day in the home envoirement. i do question where the tethering technique will help? if any dog is nervous/anxious/dominant this will surely boost those levels? sheba is already a totally different dog to the one that walked through the door a month ago .. & the mainstay of her training has been calm,steady voice, hands off training ..i.e no pushing on her rear end to sit,no force fussing etc. eg: when feeding her she jumped about frenetically .. if she jumped i simply stopped , said no in a stern but not harsh tone & turned slightly from her,moved on & kept repeating. then when she dived for her food i calmly stood in front & repeated no in same tone (basically spoke to her like i talk to my kids lol) .. not sure if i'm explaining clearly? .. & where stroking her was concerned i simply had the occassional treat in my hand or sat on garden bench talking ( gibberish mainly) in the same calm tone. she approached me when she felt secure & we've gone from there. every newcomer to the house is told to ignore her,given a treat & told to hold it loosely by their side. she now nuzzles them,gets treat & is a happy dog ..its been an intensive 4 weeks,but sheba is such a happy dog. the basic methods have also worked for 2 cats i rescued in february, almost ferals,who spat,hissed & scratched their first 2 weeks here (hence their names spider-who veritabally hung off the ceiling lol - & scar , because he gave me a few!) .. had a positive result to the point that all of them live together in harmony. sorry about long text
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