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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,012
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28-11-2010, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer 
Its stressful because the dog wants the reward enough to try for it and that produces stress. When they stop trying thats when the stress of it out weights the benifit of the reward. They will continue to try when stressed as long as the payoff is enough.
Being with the owner/being out and about is rewarding, but isn't specifically rewarding the behvaiour your training, just rewards being there.
They don't fear the stim, if you knew anything about it you would know that. If they anticapated another shock they would never perform behaviours other than staring at the handler, as you can see my dogs perform lots of behaviours.
Adam
balderdash n poppycock..... oh yes your highly trained dogs lmao
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Location: dullsville
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,241
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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28-11-2010, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by rune
LOL,
Its a zapping clone
rune
Looks to me like things have gone quiet on the e collar front and that's not good for sales so the tramp in the terrible wig who sells e collars (and likes to strap them near to a dogs genitals) has recruited a spokesman to restart the discussion.
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Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,969
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29-11-2010, 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Emotional stress of not recieving the reward, a sate that occurs throughout reward based training.
Adam
Name one effective trainer who does not give a reward for a job well done. Name one effective trainer that doesn't set up the dog for success in gaining reward very easily. Of course, there are those who don't understand the process who, no doubt, would cause emotional stress by taunting the dog with a reward that was just about impossible to attain through their own lack of commonsense. This type of trainer would never achieve results
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Location: Orkney Islands, Scotland
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,963
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29-11-2010, 02:09 AM
I am not going to argue with Adam, because I am not accustomed to having battles of wits with unarmed men. There is no publicly printable word for an e-collar user.
Snorri
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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29-11-2010, 08:07 AM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Yes it is . When all is said and done the e collar trainers won't change their point of view or agree with the majority here who abhor the use of e collars. Why would they, they are making money out of persuading people there is a quick and easy fix to every canine behavioural problem instead of using time and patience to deal with them or finding alternative ways to cope. Trainers who push the use of these devices clearly have no empathy with dogs or they would't be using the collars in the first place when there are other methods of training available.
All the time the devices are being discussed they are being publicised and you know what they say, no publicity is bad publicity. No doubt there are also owners looking for a quick fix, people who have no understating of dogs, purchased the wrong breed for their lifestyle or haven't put in the time and effort required to train their dogs correctly in the first place. Some may even read dog sites looking for information, just what the e collar trainers are are counting on.
Unfortunately each time these devices are mentioned the majority of people here who are against them feel they have to enter discussion rather than letting their use go unchallenged but I feel little is ever achieved (except for people like Adam who apparently stated his intention on a site in the USA to join lots of forums to publicise e collars ) these discussions always end in stalemate.
Hands up everyone who is beyond bored with this discussion and also of it being brought up again (by Adam this time...)
Wys
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Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
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29-11-2010, 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
I think Mini put it very well in a previous post.
Hands up everyone who is beyond bored with this discussion and also of it being brought up again (by Adam this time...)
Wys
x
I wasn't going to "feed the beast" this time ~ especially as this old thread was resurrected by Adam, no doubt just for the publicity. But I'm happy to put my hand up as bored with this discussion. It's been done to death, most people here would not dream of using an e-collar & any further mention only pleases the e-collar users.
Would it be possible, perhaps, to suggest that any posts by Adam that refer to e-collars are deleted by the mods?
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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
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29-11-2010, 09:52 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
I think Mini put it very well in a previous post.
Hands up everyone who is beyond bored with this discussion and also of it being brought up again (by Adam this time...)
Wys
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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29-11-2010, 10:46 AM
