Dogsey

Firstly, having read the article by the American College of Veterinary Surgeons whilst they do recommend using an an e collar for post op care of perianal fistulas I believe when they say e collar they mean an Elizabethan collar not an electric shock collar. To confirm my suspicions I also looked up papers on post op care for similar conditions and found on many that they defined an e collar as being an elizabethan collar.

As for going without sleep for days on end I've been there, done it and got the dog to prove it! My Pei developed severe entropion at 4 months old ... she had painful lacerations and ulcers on both cornea which until her second operation at 6 months old left her blind, To compensate for her lack of sight her hearing became hypersensitive to the slightest sound and she lived in a state or permanent panic. I'm in my 70's and live on my own and have another dog and a cat who were both adversely affected by my Pei's behaviour. Being so young and in the early stages of training, commands were useless as was trying to distract her with treats and toys which due to her impaired vision, she couldn't see.

For the next goodness knows how many weeks all my efforts went into trying to reduce her panic level. My days were largely spent outside in sub zero temperatures watching her carefully to ensure she didn't injure herself as she careered round the garden like a maniac. Evenings were disrupted every few minutes trying to calm her after she'd reacted to a noise from the TV. My nights consisted of snatching .. if I was lucky .. no more than an hour's sleep at a time, the rest being spent talking quietly to her or giving her a massage. In between there were the twice weekly visits to the vets in all types of weather conditions, the three different eye drops to be administered 4 times a day, two other animals to care for whilst trying to maintain some kind of order in my own life!

The point I'm making is that it is possible to cope and work through a dog's problems to a successful conclusion. My Pei is now 18 months old, very well trained and although she still sometimes suffers from mild anxiety the bond between is so strong than when she's worried she'll come to me and "tell" me so which I consider a compliment from a dog who went through so much trauma and fear in her life.

Chris: you still have not told me how could keep awake 24/7 to stop Ben eating himself. Until you do, I cannot accept what you say.

I have owned dogs for over 40 years. My husband is a medical scientist, with a BSc Honours Degree in Zoology, Mammalian Physiology and Biochemistry. He has a brain, he can read, learn, discuss, assess and form opinions for himself. Having thoroughly researched all possibilities, and having consulted 2 dog trainers who we knew and respected, we resorted as a last resort to purchasing a Dogtra.

I would like you to explain to me how i could have stayed awake 24/7 to distract my dog - with or without words. As an intelligent creature, my dog happens to know when I am asleep - funny that.

Chlosmum, I admire your tenacity and dedication. But you say you were sleeping for an hour? During a fraction of that time Ben would have reduced his backside to a bloody mass - he is a hugely powerful dog, with massive jaws. The very second we even looked away from him with our eyes, he would cautiously try to get at his bottom without the identity disc on his collar rattling and give the game away.

As previously said, Gnasher, we are never going to agree on this.

The condition is a very nasty one, but dogs do survive it without the use of e-collars. Owners do find ways and most, especially in the UK, do not go down the route of the collar

You beat me to it on that, many Americans use the term e.collar when talking about the Elizabethan collar, Gnasher seems to have misunderstood that.

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This thread is about banning the e.collar , but as usual its turned into "the Gnasher" thread.

The sooner they are banned the better, then we wont have to listen to the same old about how good they are.

And by the way... you can argue the small details all you like about it NOT being electricity, the collar gives a stim/shock to a dog , otherwise they would not work .

Chris: you do not know MY dog - MY dog - as confirmed by the vet - is a hyper hyper chewer/scratcher/biter. I don't care about anyone else, I had to stop him eating himself and stop him NOW - before the vet would commence any treatment.

I just cannot understand why you can't accept this.

And YOU STILL HAVE NOT TOLD ME WHAT YOU WOULD DO IF BEN WAS YOUR DOG!!

That is aimed at Jackie as well.

I will throw my hands up in the air and say O golly, I wish I had thought of that, if you can tell me how I could stop Ben eating his backside without me having to watch him 24/7.

Just to add...........

When using an e.collar, one has to catch the dog in the act of doing the unwanted behaviour, i.e running off, so I`m wondering how you can stop a dog that is in such distress that he is "eating his bottom" 24/7, unless of cause you are sitting up with the dog 24/7 watching it and "stimming" it every time it goes to near his backside.

Given the dog is in such pain , and the condition is still there, a one time stim is not going to stop a dog licking if he has an itch.

So unless the dog in question has the capacity to work out that being shocked once is going to influence his behaviour when no one is around, specially if its in pain.

So given the explanation from Gnasher, that she cant be around the dog 24/7 , one has to wonder how Ben manged to heal .

I know the answer is going to be , the dog associates a behaviour with a shock and stops the behaviour, but as we all know if a behaviour is so intense , it will over anything else going on.

As Gnahser has proven in the past, with her success rate with the e.collar, it only works if you use it.

Then why keep this going, you don`t care what others think, so be it,

As for what would I do, I would sit up 24/7 (in shifts with hubby) if I had a dog that needed such intense supervision, till the condition healed, which I have done in the past, and would do so again.

Using a shock collar on a sick dog would NEVER have entered my head, but I guess if you have one and are comfortable using them , you might as well get your moneys worth and use it for anything that crops up.

Ghasher, you can get as indignant as you like , but you put yourself in the firing line on this, (as usual) if you don't want peoples reaction to your use of the e.collar, dont post about it.

No Jackie, I did not say that, I said I don't care about anyone else - anyone else's dog. Strictly that is not true of course, as a dog lover I hate to think of any dog suffering like my poor Ben has, and I beat myself up for that for not discovering the perianal fistulas before.

I do care what people think actually, although I might say otherwise. It hurts when people think badly of me when all I want is for my dog to be healthy and happy. He is a nightmare, always has been, always will be, but he is my nightmare and what is more important, he is son of Hal.

Sitting up in shifts with OH is not a possibility at the moment due to personal reasons which I will not go into. OK, so effectively I was on my own, which would mean sitting up 24/7 for at least a week. How do you propose that I would do my job as a medical secretary efficiently and effectively with no sleep for a week, assuming I could have stayed awake for that long which I am pretty damned sure I would not have been able to.

I post about it Jackie because I CARE so much about my dogs and all dogs. Nothing is black and white with dogs, none of us should EVER say O gosh I would never do that. We should all keep an open mind - a few years ago if someone told me I would use an e collar on Ben I would have told them they were chatting rubbish. But as a dog lover I will do anything, anything, for my beloved animals.

So yes I am indignant, because effectively you are accusing me of being cruel.

Right, so having put the option of shifts to roost, how would you have stayed awake 24/7 for a week to stop your dog eating his backside away?

What I don't understand is why medication wasn't tried (as said on your other thread). There is medication to treat the condition according to many websites including Merc