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JoedeeUK
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28-02-2012, 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Yes I do---you are so busy saying things don't happen and saying it is all made up and there are no problems that you can't hear or see anything different.

I have a life, my dogs and your dogs have a life----unfortunately that can't be said for the boxers who died or the pugs and cavvies who are struggling and in pain.

rune
& are your dogs fully health tested & from fully health tested parents ???

What have rodents(Cavvies)got to do with dogs BTW ?
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bint
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28-02-2012, 09:45 AM
Sickening! What a life of torture some of those poor dogs had Criminal!
All I can say is there must be some very egotistical, twisted people around.
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x-clo-x
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28-02-2012, 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
Exactly. The breeders featured in this programme were putting ££££'s before health
thats my point though, she could of just quite as easily showed a couple of breeders that do all the health tests possible to produce healthy dogs.
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Jet&Copper
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28-02-2012, 09:49 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
just as my Loukar was scanned 5 years before the original program at the request of his father's breeder/owner & not the member of this forum who bred him & sold his brother as a stud dog knowing that Loukar & his father had SM)
Doesn't it make your blood boil that a breeder could be so unscrupulous?

Someone send me the original paper and I'll give my opinion on how good the piece of research was r.e. stats, cohort size and conclusions!
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Moobli
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28-02-2012, 09:50 AM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
The thing I found relevant about this inclusion was the difficulty the breeder had in getting the dog registered and the opposition to it from the breed club. That particular out-crossing seems to have worked and worked without any detriment in respect of introducing other possible conditions.

The thing I found interesting about this inclusion was that out-crossing and subsequent matings to bring back to the Dally shape and traits that we know and love has done nothing detrimental to the breed, but has improved it health-wise.

It is quite startling, to me at least, that there was so much resistance to it.
Absolutely!
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Mochawocha
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28-02-2012, 09:51 AM
Just a thought about the KCs inbreeding moves- if your a puppy farmer and being KC registered adds to the value of the puppies you sell are you as an unscrupulous money making venture going to A) Stop breeding from a bitch after registering 4 litters? Or B) Get rid of that bitch and move onto another?

I can't see puppy farmers packing up their businesses so surely that means there will be more unregistered puppies (or the ones they say are registered but it's not to the KC) or horrendously more dumped unwanted brood bitches?
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Jet&Copper
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28-02-2012, 09:51 AM
Originally Posted by x-clo-x View Post
thats my point though, she could of just quite as easily showed a couple of breeders that do all the health tests possible to produce healthy dogs.
But that really wasn't the point of the programme now was it?
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magpye
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28-02-2012, 09:54 AM
I think they were fairer with showing the dalmatian 'responsible' breeder and insaying there are good breeders out there. Hopefully more people will be asking what health test have been done before they get a puppy...

I agree though a good follow up to this programme would be 'the designer crossbreed myth'. But it would need to be a different reporter and programme makers... This one needs to keep pressure on the same spot to stem the bleeding... Someone else will have to stary patching up elsewhere.
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Moobli
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28-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
isn't it strange how different peoples' perceptions are? I thought the throwback to his comments brought back the sensationalism of the first show. Too much rant which actually spoilt the message he was trying to get over.

Personally, I'd have dropped the 'impact' clips from the first show and gone into more detail on the new stuff, or included new footage of the previous points made. You see, to anyone with a suspicious mind, it could look as though such extreme examples are far more rare than the show implicates. I'm not for one moment suggesting this is the case, but to me, it's poor producing/editing in that it detracts from rather than enhances a point
I agree with this. I thought there was far too much old footage shown from the first PDE and not enough footage on the changes (or lack of) that have been made and are in the process of being made.

PDE2 was less shocking than its predecessor, and was more balanced, and there were one or two very interesting points made, but I was basically left disappointed that it was just a rehash of the first PDE.
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JoedeeUK
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28-02-2012, 09:55 AM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
I just saw your other post about it above
I was only responding to what was written. But if that is the case its even worse, why limit it to so many founding dogs?
It's good the dogs were healthy and they seem to have avoided much of the genetic problems
But the dogs will all be so similar, no genetic diversity, so very similar imune systems so a high chance that they could catch something that would wipe them all out
Also with that level of close inbreeding I can't help but wonder about the fertility, litter size and cancer statistics for the breed?
Do you realise that the Cesky Terrier was not developed in the UK ? So the KC has had no imput & TBH using the number of dogs that Frantisek Horak did is what the vast majority of breeds by a sole breeder(like the Lucas terrier, Plummer terrier)are always going to have a very high COI in the first 100 years or so of development to fix type( & ability). To get dogs that do look the same with the same abilities needs a lot of in breeding, this breed was developed to do a job & be easy to keep easily groomed. Whether or not he was right isn't up to me to decide he did dead & gone & the dogs that exist today are a healthy breed when compared to some more genetically deverse breeds.

Frantisek Horak was BTW a geneticist !
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