Surely, excessive folds/slack eyes etc are either healthy or unhealthy?? Would it make it right to go along with something that our vets deemed unhealthy to keep a breed going??

As previously said, I'm not a breeder or, for that matter, a particular breed enthusiast (I just love dogs ), but every time I muse on the subject, I keep coming back to health being the paramount issue and, to me, if losing a breed is a better alternative than producing dogs of that breed who are likely to suffer all their lives, then surely losing the breed is the better option. I would hope, of course, there are other and better alternatives

Shame on the AKC if they are unable to accept that dogs deserve to live healthy lives and that breeders have a responsibility to ensure as far as is possible they do exactly that!

But we wont lose a breed will we, because we don`t have exclusive rights to " A" breed. I think that`s something we are all forgetting.

What we do here is not going to influence what other countries deeming what is correct for their breed standard, they will continue to breed to the standard as they see fit, and if we chance the standard to a degree that importing anything from a broad will undo what has been achieved, we wont import, and so the gene pool will get smaller and then what happens?

Together with a picture of a doberman with cropped ears---says it all.

rune

We lose the breed here so overall breed less unhealthy dogs

But will we??

The trouble with people, is they always will want something new, so mr A, wants breed B, he speaks to Mr C abroad and imports one, then someone else wants one and so the cycle begins again, that`s how we get breeds on the import register, so what happens then, we have killed off our version of breed A, but then someone will import another version of breed A and it starts all over again.

We will never lose a breed as long as we can import from abroad.

Maybe. However neither A nor B would be able to be shown unless it had healthy conformation, eyes that didn't droop to the point it couldn't blink and good skin condition

If the working breeders are happy to have thier dogs used hopefully some would be if it helps the breeds

While I know what you mean and I worry about what might happen to some breeds are you saying that we shouldnt change just because noone else is?? I think more to the point you could say that other countries hopefully will eventually see how unhealthy their dogs are and try and follow our example - and will then have the ability to outcrosss to our dogs to speed up the process of making their dogs less wrinkly

but I have to wonder if actually just not breeding for features like that that over time naturally the dogs would become less eggadurated

yes
I havent seen the rest of them - was the judge simply picking the best of a bad bunch or were there some a little less freaky looking (poor things)

actually you can work from a bottleneck and still keep a helthy amount of diversity - if everyone bred sensibly
BUT it would take a radical change in the way people think about breeding, it would involve breeding from far more dogs but taking less litters from them
doing away totaly with line breeding/in beeding
for example if a litter had 6 dogs then you breed the least wrinkly 3 of the litter instead of breeding the best 3 times
and you dont breed them back to their grandsire to fix the 'less wrinkles' you breed them to unrelated (or as much as you can get) dogs that are the least wrinkly
Its not a quick fix, yes it might be many years before some breeders are winning ribbons again, some breeds as a whole might not be in crufts again for a while

But I for one think it would be better in the long run - and then Crufts could be held up as the best dog show in the world imo

Yes, I hope it isnt the case but I do think we may be seeing the last days of some breeds. If they are to be saved it will take some radical rethinking by the breed clubs
and while they wear their blinkers in thinking their dogs look OK then this will never happen

how sad RIP Marley

So do you think we should continue to breed animals looking like that - or should we lead by example?

Sadly I agree

What do you think we should do then?? Do you agree there is a problem with things as they are right now?

Doesn't seem so difficult a conundrum - go to other breeds.

Ruby

Crossposted,

Beverley Cuddy
Just spoken to the owner of Marley, the Dogue De Bordeaux that very sadly died yesterday. Marley was three years old and seemed to be in excellent health earlier in the day. On the way out of Crufts she collapsed and vets were quickly on the scene. Laryngeal paralysis was the diagnosis and the decision was taken to let her go as quality of life would have been very poor if extraordinary means were used. This was the first anyone knew of Marley having any health issues. Marley had had her hips done under anaesthetic about a year ago and until yesterday there had been no sign of any health problem but the Crufts vets felt this was a ticking time bomb and it could have happened at any time. Happening at Crufts meant that vet's were close and suffering kept to a minimum. It was devastating to Marley's owners but the have vowed to find out everything they can about laryngeal paralysis so that they can help prevent this happening to anyone else. My Googling shows that it is often idiopathic - I've come across it in Dalmatians. I am sure we all send them our love and support on such a very sad and traumatic event. If you see any comments suggesting overheating being the cause please direct people to this statement as there was nothing Marley's owners could have done differently to save her.