I don't think anyone is Pidge. They have no choice and I think that most people recognise that very sad fact.

OK, just checking. It is rubbish but it can be changed in time.

Couldn't get online yesterday, now I can I have a million things to do, and no time to do them all in, typical lol.

If I were to go to a breeder I would have a million things to question, as to part money would be agreeing with them, and I would need each answered to how I like, before I settle on a breeder, some of these would be things like ethics, health, experience (wouldn't go a to a breeder that doesn't have ten or so years experience living with the breed), I would also look at endorsements, it would be one thing that I would want, but I would also question how many dogs have had restrictions lifted and why, as for each thing there is a good and bad, for example having a low amount that have had restrictions lifted could mean that the breeder is strict, on the flip side it could mean that the pups they breeds aren't good examples of what they breed, or they aren't needed/wanted in any breeding programmes or that the breeder might not want anyone to make money from breeding dogs that they have bred, this may be because the breeder doesn't want the wrong people intrested, or it may mean that they want to breed, but still keep the market open to themselves

Also if pups never have their restrictions lifted but the same breeding is repeated it would make me wonder why, are the parents not producing what the breeder wants but they are breeding again in the hope that something amazing will be produced from the same pairing? As I would question how the breeder thinks that they are going to improve the breed that they are in if they don't lift any restrictions on any pups, as the lines that they have would stop at the parents, so what is the aim in these litters unless at least one pup has its restrictions lifted? Yes it will stop anyone being able to register the pups, but if the pups are good examples of the breed it may stop the progress of the breed if they are not allowed to be bred and add to the breed.

And that was a quick reply lol, I have to leave soon (although don't really know when, and have to deal with family soon, so don't know how I will feel after that )

Must ask why 10 years owning them before you would go to them?
Why Is a breeder that has owned the breeder 10 years any better than a breeder that has owned them 3,4,5,6 years?

Because personnally I wouldn't go to a breeder who hasn't lived with the breed they are breeding from puppy hood - adult hood - senior age, and prefably with both sexes, with breeds with a lower life expectancy I may lower the number of years, but I would like to know that the breeder has had experience of living with their breed at all the major life stages (apart from birth if its their first litter, although it would be nice if they had experienced being around someone elses litter, although if they have the backing of a experienced breeder I would be happy), I'd want to know what sort of things that have experienced at each life stage, any changes etc. That is just my preference.

But some people got go into a breed through rescues before actually going out and buying their foundation dogs so will have experienced the breed at different ages, with different problems.

Like my mum looked into Chinese Crested for 4years before she went out and got her first two. They happened to be two 'rescues', of about 19months and 2years, then she got another two of different ages. About 2 years after that we meet some fab friends in the breed, brought in and started showing then she bred a litter, so In effect she has only been breeding CC's around 5years, owned them a little more than that but not dogs she has bred, just rescued.

Experience of a breed doesnt just come by breeding them.

Thats why I said experience living with the breed it doesn't matter how long they have bred or shown or taken part in any actitivies, but I would only go to someone who has had a good amount of experience just living with the breed before I would go to them for a litter. But ten years would still be my bench mark, unless the breed has a lower life expentancy (although I don't think I would go for a breed with a low life expentancy either).

But what I am saying is some one that fosters/rescues will have had dogs of different ages in and out all the time through out a number of years. That could be 3years, or more. For me the amount of years some one has been around the breed isnt so much the problem its their involvement in the breed, in the time they have been around them.

In my breed the older breeders are the ones refusing to test.. and for me going out and getting a well bred pup from some one that cares enough to test and understands the breed in my opinion... Is far more likely to get my support than some one that has owned the breed for 10years but fails to be responsible in other areas... because for me that is lack of passion to their choosing breed.

What makes you think a litter or repeat mating, has not produced one or two amazing dogs from said litters, simply because the breeder has not lifted endorsements from the remaining dogs from said litter


You forget the pup the the BREEDER will have kept, will NOT have endorsements on it!!


Seems no amount of explanation is helping you understand the ethos of endorsements


I have a friend who has 9 of her chosen breed, her oldest is 9 (still got a few yrs in her yet) her youngest is 18mths old, she has been in her breed 9 yrs.... she has had I think 4 litters in her time in the breed, she produces fabulous dogs, excellent temperaments, does all health checks required and does well in the ring, she vets her owners with a fine tooth comb, and some of her owners are waiting for her to have another litter so they can have another from her.

She endorses ALL her puppies, and has yet to lift one, she was asked a few yrs ago, but she refused, ... she has also used the same bitch again to produce another litter , which ond of the pups has gained 2 CC`s ... she is also ver well respected in her breed .


Yet according to your criteria, she would be classed as a bad breeder in your eyes, until her last litter she has never owned a boy, another no no on your list.

Yet you would go to a breeder who owns both sexes, lifts endorsements when people ask, and has seen her breed from birth to death...

I am struggling to understand your thinking!!

Thats ok, you don't have to.