hows about a different approach?..no whacking or e-collar?
Adam...the bc owner lacked education experience and feelings and ,imo so do you

Adam it may not be intentional but the goalposts are being moved a bit - "withholding" is one thing and is used, but this is not what the problem/claim is. It's the whole "treat in the pocket and dog constantly tortured" claim that is the concern here. It's not clearly got any substance or basis, it's misleading and incorrect information...

Shock collars do make it very easy though, and almost give the go ahead to the owner - a sort of "do it like this, it's training so it's OK, it's not really abuse..." type of thing.

Wys
x

Adam I am completely mystified as to why you are working with dogs at all you are clearly not a dog lover, no dog lover would intentionally cause pain to a dog in order to teach it something when there are proven alternative methods.

Why don't you go and work with with inanimate objects and give us all a break.
You will never convince genuine dog lovers here that causing a dog pain is acceptable.

For people who don't know,this is the kind of thing those who use e collars get up to




Would anyone like to hazard a guess what this 'person' (I use the term loosely) could possibly be teaching this dog?

I believe that using an Ecollar is the easiest option for you, it is quick and you see the results you want to see and the owners get a quick fix. Why would you ever want to change that as it feeds your ego as well as your pockets?

A good result is not the quickest one but the one which is acceptable to all party's concerned and using an ecollar is never acceptable from the dogs point of view.

Having and training a dog is not about the power you hold over the animal but about working together to acheive a way of life that is beneficial to both owner and dog. What you are doing and promoting is 'you will do as I say or I will hurt you' and this is bullying regardless of how you wrap it up with lingo.

Adam, the BC owner is my Mum who has trained all her dogs without aversive methods. I sincerely hope you have misread my post and meant to say the GSD owner lacked education.

So it's OK to use an e collar so that the owner doesn't beat the dog? So what's the difference? Abuse is abuse.

WW. I don't understand your second statement, but thats probably me lol. Can you clarify what you mean.
I think only the DC guy makes it sound like torture. Everyone else who discuss's it just views it as another training approach. I think the DC guy is very passionate but sometimes that makes him come across wrong.

Minihaha
I love dogs, I don't believe loving dogs means you shouldn't use an effective/humane method to train just because it upsets some people.
The dobie in the pic is probably being trained to sit. Its a dobbs (but others use it of course) idea that the dog percieves the stim as pressure (e;g physical pressure) and much like horse handling will move away from that pressure. You can also put the e collar on top of the neck to teach down and on the side of the neck to teach the dog a closer heel ect.

Tupac
Dog had a prob that benifited from the e collar, I would ahve used one anyway to rebuild dogs confidence in owner.

Loki
Misread post.
Its not abuse anymore than putting a lead on a dog is abuse. In fact e collars can't inflict physical harm but leads can.

Adam

Actually horses to do not yield to pressure.
If you push a horse it will lean back against you (anyone who has ever had a horse tread on their foot will know you cannot push them off!!).....I believe dogs do as well, which is why you do not push a dog into a sit...you raise the nose by offering a treat so the back end lowers.

Isn`t is great that Wales is leading the way in animal welfare now - I understand puppy farming is next to be addressed. Great.
Just for info - take it from someone who used to teach horse riding and has the scars to prove it -
Horses cannot be trained with electric shock collars.
Horses are not the same as dogs.
Horses respond using the protocol of the herd, unlike dogs
therefore dog training doesn`t teach you anything about horses.
So, basically... Adam`s talking horse poo.

Honeysmum

What about all the parelli stuff ect were the horse is taught to yeild to pressure. I didn't say it was a natural resoponse rather that once the dog/horse is trained to understand it it can be used as an additional training aid.

Also I believe horses are occasionally e collar trained, there are two horse articles on dobbs dogs and I heard the horses in the Lord of the rings were e collar trained.

Adam