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Lynn
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Location: March, Cambridgeshire.
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23-05-2010, 08:13 AM
I hope the ideas you have been given help. It seems you are doing everything right just got caught out thats all. We have done that a couple of times it makes your realize they are not so easily cured as we would like to think.

Anton will probably get there if he doesn't you will be like us with Ollie learn the warning signs and learn to adjust to them and living with a dog like it.

Sometimes I think there are no hard and fast rules in these cases, we learn the signs and react accordingly.

Good luck and keep up the good work which I know you will.
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Krusewalker
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23-05-2010, 08:13 AM
sounds like too much too soon

the chap is clearly confident around the situation but maybe you all pushed the envelope too much?

anton may have been encouraged into this interraction by all present, so was happy to oblige, as it were, but then panicked when he realised he had got himself into a situation he couldnt cope with and couldnt find an escape route from?

im surmising their were a layer of subtle calming signals going on the whole time but maybe not detected?
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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23-05-2010, 08:31 AM
Oh dear, but its just a setback, a small step back in all the progress you are making
and you are making progress so remember that

I really sugest getting Turid Rugass 'calming signals' book, it is great for understanding some of what a dog is saying to you

If he was freezing and stairing then he was giving a warning that he was not happy with the situation, and the guy keeping stroking his head in the dogs mind left him no choice because he HAD asked him to calm down

If you see anything like that just ask your visitor to back off and call your dog to you for a bit of a fuss

Personaly too I would always sit at a side so my dog can come to me and get away from any situation

I am sure your behaviourist will be able to help, try not to stress too much, no harm done, we all make mistakes
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ClaireandDaisy
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23-05-2010, 09:51 AM
German Shepherds are Big Wussies! I tell visitors to ignore mine. If I can`t trust the visitor to allow the dog to keep her distance and approach when she`s ready, I put her in another room. After all, the visitors haven`t come to see the dog.
I personally don`t expect my GSDs to interact with strangers. They do learn to accept regular vistors, but it needs to be over time, I find.
My last GSD was friendly with strangers, but she was bottle-fed and hand-reared as a pup, so I think she was the exception rather than the rule.
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mishflynn
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23-05-2010, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by Kiing View Post
In retrospect, I would have opened the door into the kitchen wider so Anton could see he could escape - I think I had it open to slightly for him to consider it. When he flipped, he didn't seem to be thinking about flight at all, but it is a possibility that thinking he couldn't get away may have contributed to this.

I also probably should have told the guys to ignore him - one did anyway, but the one he turned on was quite eager to say hello, so Anton didn't get his usual sniffing in.

What you say does make some sense, as the guy was stroking the top of Anton's head quite enthusiatically - maybe too much so for Anton, coupled with the constant eye contect.

they you are then, he was put undrer too much presure,let the dog go & leave the people at his own pace,
Stroking on the dogs head can be threatening as can eye contact,
& rubbing "vigorsley " will wind must dogs up, gentle strokes with this dog ONCE hes gotto know you.

Ignoring,no eye contact, dropping food on floor, hands & feet for dog to sniff, for a hour or so first!!!!
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Wysiwyg
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23-05-2010, 04:58 PM
Forgive me for dropping in quickly and not reading the whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating what has been said already.

My thoughts are:

What did the behaviourist do to show you how to alter the dog's emotional reaction? this will need to change, and if you were only advised to muzzle, sit at the door and remain calm, then it's frankly not good enough.

You needed a programme of desensitisation and counter conditioning really - ie, helping Anton to associate visitors with a good feeling

A good reputable behaviourist will be able to do this

Agree also, too much way too soon. Dogs will take months, even years to overcome their concerns, and if Anton is unhappy and friends fuss him, he will learn to protest in fear and then if that works, he will practice it If it doesn't work, he may up the ante ....

My advice would be to ensureyour behaviourist is a member of a reputable organisation (eg apbc, or possibly coape or apdt).

Hth and good luck
Wys
x
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youngstevie
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23-05-2010, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Forgive me for dropping in quickly and not reading the whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating what has been said already.

My thoughts are:

What did the behaviourist do to show you how to alter the dog's emotional reaction? this will need to change, and if you were only advised to muzzle, sit at the door and remain calm, then it's frankly not good enough.

You needed a programme of desensitisation and counter conditioning really - ie, helping Anton to associate visitors with a good feeling

A good reputable behaviourist will be able to do this

Agree also, too much way too soon. Dogs will take months, even years to overcome their concerns, and if Anton is unhappy and friends fuss him, he will learn to protest in fear and then if that works, he will practice it If it doesn't work, he may up the ante ....

My advice would be to ensureyour behaviourist is a member of a reputable organisation (eg apbc, or possibly coape or apdt).

Hth and good luck
Wys
x
excellent post I had my thoughts regarding the muzzle sit at the door and stay calm xxx
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Kiing
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23-05-2010, 05:37 PM
The other advice we were given was to have visitors give Anton treats once he had settled - as we managed to do near everything wrong in this instance, we didn't manage this time.

I'll not be pushing him to accept anyone ever again - like you've all said, I should have let him take it at his own pace.

At least it has been a reminder for us that his problem hasn't 'disappeared' (I hadn't thought it had, but I think I had gotten a bit 'cocky', so to speak. Bad Sarah.) and we should remain vigilant for everyone's sake.
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ClaireandDaisy
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23-05-2010, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Kiing View Post
The other advice we were given was to have visitors give Anton treats once he had settled - as we managed to do near everything wrong in this instance, we didn't manage this time.

I'll not be pushing him to accept anyone ever again - like you've all said, I should have let him take it at his own pace.
the visitors giving treats does work in some cases with some dogs. Most GSDs however, I wouldn`t try it with.
You`ve come a long way with this boy - let him take his time, and he`ll thank you for it. And don`t beat yourself up - we all have good days and bad days.
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Kiing
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23-05-2010, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
the visitors giving treats does work in some cases with some dogs. Most GSDs however, I wouldn`t try it with.
You`ve come a long way with this boy - let him take his time, and he`ll thank you for it. And don`t beat yourself up - we all have good days and bad days.
As Anton's verrrrry into food, this has actually proved quite effective for us. Once he's had his treat, he tends to just accept people and get on with his life (most of the time, anyway).
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