I mean Collie in their work, what they were designed for, i.e herding.

Different Dog then, I think the other was a more of a Beddy/Whippet/greyhound type, no Collie in that one from what I remember. Thanks for that.

She even calls my friends dof Fen her "grandchild" he was by Royale dash, so is interested in relations too!

I know in obedience they have alot more trouble to keep motivated & doing stuff for no reason ,& stuff like Sendaways.They also "think " more than collies (terrible stuff thinking for ob training!)

My friend has a litter brother to Rooney,ive seen the ped,it was a accidental litter,between a show Bred Whippett & show Bred Collie. The collie went back to Clan Abby Blue Aberdoone. (for BC "lines" fans)

And what does a stud dog produce?.....puppies.

You cant breed without a stud.

It really does not matter who sells or raises the pups, the stud owner, is equally responsible for the offsprings, or am I alone in that thought!!!


She has never bred , but Quincy has offsprings??

A friend of mine has just used her dog on someones bitch, she talks about the offsprings as the youngsters of her boy..she is just as concerned over their "homing" as the bitches breeder....If I asked he if she was "breeding" with him, she would say, "yes " he has produced pups.

I find it difficult to understand how so many can dismiss someone who is using a stud to produce pups, and not class them as a breeder.

I am not talking about what is classed as a licenced breeder in law.....but the moral side of breeding... or is that not a consideration in this instance.

I saw the lurcher and shelties a few months ago - in a training demo - very impressed

Stud dog owners do have a joint responsibility for all the puppies their dogs produce, but they are NOT Breeders & have no legal ownership at any time of the puppies their dogs produce unless they take one(or more)from the bitch owner(ie the Breeder)or buy/rehome one(or more)puppies from the owners. A Breeder owns all the puppies their bitches produce from day one(or to be technically correct from the date after conception that the puppies could be viable if born)until they are sold or given away. If a payment bounces for a puppy the stud dog owner cannot go to court to get the puppy back, because they are NOT the Breeder of the puppy

How far do you want to take the "responsibility"of the"Breeder"(which in your eyes includes the stud dog owner)after the first generation, the 2nd Generation, the 3rd Generation etc etc ???

I know the friend who owned Wukee's G Grandfather & G G Grandfather has a very keen interest in the puppies from their lines, but is she responsible for their puppies' puppies etc ??

Personally I would say no.... I understand and agree with all you say. my point was not about who legally owns, the puppies from said matings.

But the fact someone who uses a stud is breeding their dog, and are adding to the population of pups. In my opinion, they are, breeding , which makes them a breeder,( just my own opinion) they will take a fee or pup in return for there dogs services.

There are two defining factors here, who is legally responsible for the pups, and has the added worry of finding the right homes for their offsprings.... ofcause that is the Dams breeder, they are the ones, who rears /loves and worries over the pups, on a daily basis.

The stud owner, will take a fee or pup, but that should not be the end of their responsibility, they have used their dog to produce puppies, they have to take on the responsibility of those puppies too, if asked to help find homes for puppies they should do so...if any come back, they should also be prepared to take on the rehoming of said pups.

Both owners have used their dogs to breed a litter....not just one.

using Marys Foxy as a example.Quincy is her dad, But Beryl Eaton Owned the bitch. Mary Obvisley & correctly has but the Breeder Down as B Eaton & not herself as is Correct.

Are you saying the KC is incorrect & BOTH names should be down as the breeder? Thats not to say the stud dog owner does not care & should have as much responsiblity as is agreed between the Owner of the bitch & themselves.

The post which as upset us all implied Mary bred lots & lots of puppies which is simply not the case, you seem to understand meaning of the word "breeder" different to the rest of the dog world & the Kennel club?

I held Rooney once for her while she was working Quincy at DTC. He was only a baby Ha ha what a claim to fame LOL
Didn't realize he was related to my Blue. Clan abby blue aberdoone is Blues great grandad

Of cause that is not what I am saying, the bitch owner will be down as the breeder, , where did I imply anything differently?? or wish it to be.

Ultimately the responsibility rests with the Dams breeder.

I am perfectly aware what the word "breeder" implies.

A breeder is someone who breeds there dogs!!! male of female.


As for the above post, I dont know anything about that, and am not interested how many litters her dog has sired.

Where we differ, is the fact , to me, you are breeding puppies whether you own a stud or the Dam... the rest is immaterial