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muttzrule
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09-03-2007, 02:51 AM
Sorry another post another reply, about the statitstic that states that pit bulls make up only 2% of all dogs, I would doubt seriously the validity of that statistic.

Pit Bulls until recently weren't recognized by the AKC and thus there was no way of tracking their numbers by any sort of registration. There are hundreds of thousands of pits and pit mixes in the United States. They are the number 2 dog in rescue behind the Labrador. There is no compulsory nation wide dog registry system that anyone can know with any certainty how many of any kind of dog there is in the US. Most of these breed stats come from the AKC where the Pit has only just been recognized so of course there aren't that many on the register. There are far more Pit Bulls in the US than 2% of all dogs. In the Kennels my family owned, I would say probably 33% of all our clients were Pits or Pit Mixes, and in the Vet Practice where I worked in North Texas, the number of Pits was probably closer to 40-45%. Yes that many. Extremely popular breed. I once had an obedience class with 13 dogs, 9 of them Pit Bulls or Pit Mixes. My Therapy dog group, several pit bulls were active members. My Dog Training club, four pit Breeders and many many Pit owners. My flyball team, has a pitbull running anchor. Dock dogs, Pitbulls, Agility Club, pit bulls, 12 of the dogs I have fostered for rescue in my 9 years as a foster were Pit Bulls or Pit Mixes.

2% is a farce!
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China
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09-03-2007, 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by bebe View Post
Pitbulls are NOT dangerous. People are.


I was knocked over by a Vauxhall Astra a few years ago. The driver was over the limit. Where does the fault lie? With the Astra, or the person in charge of it?

I witnessed a murder right outside of my home, a young kid was stabbed to death. Was the knife at fault, or the person holding it?

My daughter had to have stitches in her ankle after her friends American Pitbull Rabbit attacked her. The Rabbit was known to be aggressive, and was let out of its cage to "run and chase the kids, for a bit of fun" by the Father. Who was at fault, the rabbit or the Father? Should all Lop-ears be banned?

My sister-in-law had a Pitbull and a cat. I was afraid to go into her house. She had to put the cat in another room, because it attacked me everytime I went there. The pitbull just wanted cuddles from me everytime.

Incidently, I muzzle my staff because she is DOG aggressive and thats the responsible thing to do. She would no more attack a person, especially a child, than I would.

Its HUMANS that turn an animal or object into a weapon. A gun cant be fired if a person doesnt load the bullets.
Originally Posted by Hevvur View Post
Are guns dangerous without someone to pull the trigger?
Are knives dangerous without someone to hold them?
Are dogs dangerous without someone on the other end of the lead.

Humans have shaped dogs into what they are today.
Everything dogs do is because humans have asked/taught the dog to do it - weather that be hearing sheep, being a guide dog, being a pet dog, show dog, rescuing people, and even fighting.
Every single action above, the dog does because the human asked it to.
I don't believe any particular breed of dog is dangerous.
Like everyone always says - it's how they are brought up.

I believe if ANY dog is brought up in a 'family' environment, not made to fighting/barking/lunging etc, and have their energy channeled properly, that they will turn out a happy and well adjusted dog.

As always, precautions must be made - but no more so for the pit bull, than for the Yorkshire terrier.
I agree with the above two quotes. What you don't hear in the press is when this breed has saved a life, god forbid if they show that these dogs are not the killers they are made out to be.
Ban the deed not the breed.
Owning any animal is not a right but a honour! people should have to do a test and have their houses checked before a pet is given into their care
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SBT
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09-03-2007, 07:13 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007110125,00.html
This happened local to me yesterday. I know they are saying "staff" but some are saying "Pit Bull" can you understand how many people must feel about this type of dog when you see things like this?

You see, you might think, "well what was a young girl doing with a dog out like that?" but what was that dog doing behaving like that? especially when many people on here are backing up the impecable temperaments these dogs have? Something made it attack, something made it snap? Bad dog or bad owner?
Dawn.
Be it a stafford or a pit bull this news story just adds to the problem, its promoting the bad image of a breed, things like Devil dog, and Deadly ... bull terrier under the picture of a dangerous looking dog makes having a Stafford or a Pit Bull all the more appealing to the wrong type of owner, as does the fact that the pit bull is a band breed, it all adds to the bad boy image.

OWNER NOT THE BREED
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Hali
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09-03-2007, 08:37 AM
I have no personal experience of pitbulls. That said, I don't think it would alter my thoughts if I had:

I do believe that pitbulls can make loving, gentle pets and that many, many people will own them without incident.
BUT
I would never own one, nor would I be particularly comfortable with one being around me because:

I choose my pets on the basis of what I can handle. Yes, if they are well bred and socialised, there should never be a problem, but I know that if some freak incident occured whereby my dog attacked another dog or a person, I would be able to get my dog off & under control fairly quickly.
From what I have read of pitbulls when they do attack, I am certain that I wouldn't stand a chance in hell of stopping it.

I do not know whether there is a higher risk of being attacked by a pitbull than any other breed, but I do think that I would rather face just about any other breed than a pitbull if an attack did happen.

I'm afraid despite their loving qualities, I just don't understand the need to own a pitbull when there are so many other breeds which can give you all the love, affection and loyality you could want.
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Meganrose
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09-03-2007, 09:17 AM
This is a very emotive subject as obviously we are (hopefully) are all dogs lovers here and I'm sure no-one what's to 'blame' the dogs themselves. That being said the question is still "do we think that pit bulls are dangerous" and I have to say that sadly, as I stated before I have no personal experience of them but, after reading much research the statistics are there to prove this. It does not say whether the owner or handler was 'to blame' but it does make it perfectly clear that whichever way you choose to look at things that more, many, many more fatalities have occurred through pit bulls than any other breed 42% of all dog bites, and that's when pit bulls only constitute 2% of the breeds so however much we have seen people with these beautiful and I'm sure very loveable dogs you cannot escape the facts.

I really don't think some of the comparisons quoted such as guns and cars are at all helpful, unless you believe that a dog is an innate, unthinking and unfeeling object, as yes I take the point that it's a car with a driver and a gun with a shooter that does the damage but, and it's a big but, a dog is a thinking and feeling living being that will chose to carry out certain behaviours/actions or chose not to, however well it has been trained. Of course how a dog is socialised and trained will impact upon it's temperament, but the facts still remain that pit bulls are responsible for a disproportionate amount of attacks on humans (especially children) however much we would all I'm sure like to believe otherwise.
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Borderdawn
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09-03-2007, 09:33 AM
Originally Posted by muttzrule View Post
Can I ask where you get the idea that they will "snap" at something other dogs view as normal? Have you witnessed this behavior? Is there some study I am not aware of?
Its NO idea, I have seen it. I have seen a Pit Bull Terrier standing quietly at its owners side whilst seemingly watching the world go by, while standing next to my 3 dogs and while I was talking with its owner, then a cry from a child in a pushchair at the other side of the road sent it into a frenzy, and it was NOT a nice thing to see, the owner was shocked to the point of shaking, imagine what could of happened if it got loose? You think about that.

In my 20 plus years of experience with dogs of all breeds including the Pit Bull Terrier, I have seen two Dobermans "turn" on their owners for no apparent reason, and one chow mix. Never a Pittie. Pit Bulls are extremely stable dogs. They aren't moody, they aren't flighty, they are normally gentle, solid and puppy like until their middle years. Pit bulls aren't prone to fear responses like some breeds as they simply don't have a fearful bone in their body. They live to explore their world. Things that might another dog "snap" is likely just to be something new and interesting for the Pit Bull to check out.
So have I, well one at least, and a Rott on here too that couldnt of had a better owner, but it happens, however the statistics show that the Pit Bull is far more likely to attack and given the nature of the breed will and does do more damage.
Dawn.
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Ramble
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09-03-2007, 10:06 AM
Originally Posted by muttzrule View Post
Sorry another post another reply, about the statitstic that states that pit bulls make up only 2% of all dogs, I would doubt seriously the validity of that statistic.

!
I think the 2% wasn't of the overall dog population but was 2% of the dogs in the study, although I may be wrong...
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Ramble
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09-03-2007, 10:09 AM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Are Pit Bull Terriers Dangerous? Last week I would have said they were no more dangerous than any other breed, now as the result of looking into statistics I would say yes they are.

I have always believed that all dogs have a 'bite tolerance threshold' and that if this is exceeded due to one of a number of factors eg pain/fear/illness/hormones/heredity/poor socialisation any dog could bite. However it would seem there is a difference between the dogs who simply bite, and the dogs who have the potential to bite and cause fatalities, PBTs fall into the second category.

We are told by some that PBTs are extremely 'human friendly' and 'child friendly' , but what about PBTs that have never been socialise with children, are we to believed that this breed above all others is an exception and less likely to attack children than any other breed?

If so this is not born out by the statistics coming from the USA.

Looking at a ten year period in the USA the highest number of fatailities was caused by 'Pitbull type' 66 deaths in ten years.(Stats from a number of US agencies on page 2 ).

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf


These statistics may not be conclusive because some attacks may never have been reported, but they do seem to be quite comprehensive.


In addition to this the Bite Law Center ,a network of Lawyers who have successfully represented clients who have been injured by dangerous dogs state...


It one also takes into account some of the people who are attracted to owning PBTs over any other breed, the type of people who may be less likely to treat the dog well or socialise it, breed from poor quality stock, breed to retain aggression we may have a reason why some PBTs have the potential to be more aggressive than some other breeds.
Cracking post..I've read many of these stats before, they are quite startling.
I agree pitbulls have more potential to be dangerous than most other breeds.
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Ramble
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09-03-2007, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I have to say yes, in the wrong hands, or when they go wrong, Pit Bulls are incredibly dangerous. Their very design, very high pain threshold, powerful jaws, no quitting nature makes them lethal among the average dog. Im NOT slamming the breed, but taking the breed as it is and what it is.
Dawn.
I totally agree with this.
I'm not slamming the breed either, but the potential danger and aggression in a pitbull, the potential damage it can do, is higher than for your average dog.
So in answer to the question 'is a pitbull dangerous?' Having read all the thread and many other things on the net and in papers (good and bad) I'm afraid I have to say yes they have more potential to be dangerous than other breeds.
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Hayley SBT
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09-03-2007, 10:48 AM
Can we take The Sun for a serious Newspaper? I mean the whole Devil Dog is silly and they only use one picture of a snarling Bull Breed every time!
The Sun has the average reading age of 12 I have been told! So if we are gonna debate could we use a serious, intelligent article please, lol?

Basically American Pit Bull Terriers can do Alot more damage that say a Yorkshire terrier, Could it do alot more damage that a Great Dane, Bull Mastiff, Neo Mastiff, Kelpie ? Not so sure depending on what sort of rage the dog is in before it attack!

An American Pit Bull Terrier is no more likely to bite than any other breed. So lets remember Deed Not Breed, then many innocent dogs will not get PTS!
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