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Lizzy23
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12-05-2010, 03:39 PM
sorry at the end of the day i still maintain that this dog shouldn't have been put in this position in the firts place and as for rehoming, yes its possible this one is rehomed
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?p=1919657

and she was on last chance saloon after biting a builder in her previous home, she just needed somebody understanding.

From what i can gather this dog has nipped not bitten lets face it he is a male doberman if he wanted to, he could have had the 3 year olds entire head in his mouth and done some serious damage before the OP could have got anywhere near to drag him off.

None of us were there, none of us have seen the injuries, the OP has admitted she turned away to look at the screen and the dog was on him, so She didn't actually see if anything provoked it.
youngstevie
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12-05-2010, 03:42 PM
These things always worry me, mainly because we were not there to see exactly what happened.
I most likely will not be popular but I think a trip to the vets would be my first port of call.
I've had rescue dogs with human aggression and what worries me is that we do not know what befell them before coming to me. I could only presumme stuff, like you can only presumme that Oscar had been attacked by other dogs, he could also of been in a home where a small child did stuff that niggled him.

I realise that you have not had him long but rescues that have not been owned long with someone are IMO not a dog that very small children should be standing by without you being between, this I realise is awkward because you can not be there 24/7 with them and whether people realise it there are things like ''honeymoon periods'' . It could of been as you took your eyes off them, your little boy made eye contact with Oscar....I'd imagin if Oscar was standing by him your 3 year old is about the same height, Oscar could of seen this as a threat, and stroking his back could of added to just aggitated him.
Im not suggesting at all that anything you do or your little boy did was wrong, but the history of this dog is unknown........thats not Oscar fault either
I'd be perfectly honest and if the vet feels that there is no medical issues, ring all of the Doberman rescues, and I think the idea of a muzzel whilst still in close contact with your son is a good idea for now.

I hope you can find him the right home before taking a decision of PTS
greyhoundk
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12-05-2010, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Lizzy23 View Post
sorry at the end of the day i still maintain that this dog shouldn't have been put in this position in the firts place and as for rehoming, yes its possible this one is rehomed
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?p=1919657

and she was on last chance saloon after biting a builder in her previous home, she just needed somebody understanding.

From what i can gather this dog has nipped not bitten lets face it he is a male doberman if he wanted to, he could have had the 3 year olds entire head in his mouth and done some serious damage before the OP could have got anywhere near to drag him off.

None of us were there, none of us have seen the injuries, the OP has admitted she turned away to look at the screen and the dog was on him, so She didn't actually see if anything provoked it.
Kitty rehomed the dog from a friend who was going to return it to the RSPCA - maybe it would have been better to take it back to them but she thought she was doing a good thing by homing the dog herself with good intentions.

The dog had to be pulled off the little boy and whether he "only nipped" or not he left damage to the childs face, near his eye, its lucky his eye was not damaged. The intent was there, its irrelevent if it was provoked or not.

Kitty was right next to the dog and child and this must have happened in a split second, i'm sorry theres no way i would trust the dog near a child again, whether the dog has medical issues or not the OP could still never have the dog in her home. Rightfully she has to put her childs welfare first.
Lizzy23
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12-05-2010, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by greyhoundk View Post
Kitty rehomed the dog from a friend who was going to return it to the RSPCA - maybe it would have been better to take it back to them but she thought she was doing a good thing by homing the dog herself with good intentions.

The dog had to be pulled off the little boy and whether he "only nipped" or not he left damage to the childs face, near his eye, its lucky his eye was not damaged. The intent was there, its irrelevent if it was provoked or not.

Kitty was right next to the dog and child and this must have happened in a split second, i'm sorry theres no way i would trust the dog near a child again, whether the dog has medical issues or not the OP could still never have the dog in her home. Rightfully she has to put her childs welfare first.

Nobody is disputing that she should put her child first, just that the dog shouldn't be PTS without further investigation, believe me i have no problme putting a truly aggressive dog to sleep, but form the description Kitty has given i don't think this is a truly agressive dog, just one thats in the worng home
labradork
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12-05-2010, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by Lizzy23 View Post
sorry at the end of the day i still maintain that this dog shouldn't have been put in this position in the firts place and as for rehoming, yes its possible this one is rehomed
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?p=1919657

and she was on last chance saloon after biting a builder in her previous home, she just needed somebody understanding.

From what i can gather this dog has nipped not bitten lets face it he is a male doberman if he wanted to, he could have had the 3 year olds entire head in his mouth and done some serious damage before the OP could have got anywhere near to drag him off.

None of us were there, none of us have seen the injuries, the OP has admitted she turned away to look at the screen and the dog was on him, so She didn't actually see if anything provoked it.
Doesn't sound like just a nip to me:

the next thing I knew the dog was on top of my son, barking and growing, I struggled to drag him off, all the time he was lunging and pulling back to get to my son.

If the OP hadn't been next to them at the time, who knows how bad it could have been. I find it worrying that the dog was still attempting to lunge after she had pulled the dog off her son.
greyhoundk
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12-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Lizzy23 View Post
Nobody is disputing that she should put her child first, just that the dog shouldn't be PTS without further investigation, believe me i have no problme putting a truly aggressive dog to sleep, but form the description Kitty has given i don't think this is a truly agressive dog, just one thats in the worng home
Doesn't matter what investigations are carried out it still bit and as such cannot be trusted. How can you guarantee this dog will never come into contact with kids in the future, it would certainly have to be muzzled permanently in public and the people who rehome it would have to be 100% responsible for the dog, who knows what sort of home it could end up in ?

If you don't think this is a truely aggressive dog when it had to be be physically pulled off a child and bit on the face and was still up for more, what is ?
rune
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12-05-2010, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Lizzy23 View Post
Nobody is disputing that she should put her child first, just that the dog shouldn't be PTS without further investigation, believe me i have no problme putting a truly aggressive dog to sleep, but form the description Kitty has given i don't think this is a truly agressive dog, just one thats in the worng home
Unfortunately there is no chance of finding the right home through a rescue now it has bitten.

rune
madisondobie
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12-05-2010, 04:12 PM
I would say a trip to the vet first in the meantime contact the breed rescues on a previous post, the dog has gone from one home to a rescue centre then to a new home then rehomed again and finally he was homed with you - that can be really unsettling for any dog and with his scarring and hair loss his history/ past treatment is unknown.
I agree with the others that it was a nip that shouldn't have happened but to my mind it was not a bite the size of a male dobermann if he wanted to he would have just bitten and caused alot of damage - and the actual incident wasn't witnessed from the start so maybe the dog did give off a signal that he was uncomfortable with what the child was doing but knowone noticed - not saying he should have done what he did but i don't think its an easy PTS straight away.
Of course you have to put the welfare of your child first but please do try all the rescues and have him checked at the vets.
Just wanted to add that if after the vets and contacting the rescues you have to have him pts at least be safe in the knowledge that you gave him a lovely home and a chance.
scorpio
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12-05-2010, 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Really? I think these 'special' owners are extremely few and far in between. I used to volunteer at my local Dogs Trust and most of the dogs with serious issues (none biting a person though, if I remember correctly) were there for an incredibly long time. Many never left the rescue, some I'm sure were PTS. In fact, I looked at their website recently and some of the dogs that were there several years ago when I volunteered, are still there now.

A male Dobermann with an unknown past that is dog aggressive and has bitten a child in an unprovoked attack is not going to be easy to home. I would say near impossible, especially as you have plenty of dogs which are none of those things.
I know of a few people that have a largish plot of land, they walk their dog or dogs around that land, they never meet any other dogs. These people are retired, never had children so no grandchildren to come across either. I can name 3 people with English/Irish setters that live like that, so it is possible, if they were willing to take the risk.
labradork
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12-05-2010, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by madisondobie View Post
I would say a trip to the vet first in the meantime contact the breed rescues on a previous post, the dog has gone from one home to a rescue centre then to a new home then rehomed again and finally he was homed with you - that can be really unsettling for any dog and with his scarring and hair loss his history/ past treatment is unknown.
[b]I agree with the others that it was a nip that shouldn't have happened but to my mind it was not a bite the size of a male dobermann if he wanted to he would have just bitten and caused alot of damage[b] - and the actual incident wasn't witnessed from the start so maybe the dog did give off a signal that he was uncomfortable with what the child was doing but knowone noticed - not saying he should have done what he did but i don't think its an easy PTS straight away.
Of course you have to put the welfare of your child first but please do try all the rescues and have him checked at the vets.
Just wanted to add that if after the vets and contacting the rescues you have to have him pts at least be safe in the knowledge that you gave him a lovely home and a chance.
It wasn't just a nip though. Surely if it was 'just a nip', the dog would have nipped and backed off straight away. I have seen dogs nip through fear and they retreat instantly. In this case, the dog was on top of her son, had to be physically dragged off and was still lunging to go after her son as he was dragged away. That sounds like a sustained incident...the dog did not just nip and retreat. Yes the dog given its breed could have caused more damage; perhaps it might of done had, God forbid, the OP not been right next to them the second it happened.
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