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AiredaleKate
Dogsey Senior
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Location: Swindon, UK
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15-07-2008, 02:29 PM

Witholding places?

Hi,

I've just been looking on Fossedata at the Airedale results from East of England today (my pup's brother got Best Puppy in breed, yay!).

Anyhow, I noticed in both the junior dog and junior bitch classes, places were witheld.

In Junior Dog, 5 dogs were entered, places given for 2nd, 3rd & reserve.

In Junior Bitch 10 were entered, 5 absent, 1st, 2nd, Res & VHC awarded.

Presuming the Fossedata info is correct, why would this be done? I am a newbie and still trying to learn all the rules and regs!
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KateM
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15-07-2008, 02:50 PM
It could be that the places are withheld but it maybe a printer error due to an error on the slips returned to the secretary, particularly in the junior bitch class.

a judge could withhold the first place and then give out the rest of the places, in fact they could withhold first and second and give out the rest, but if they withhold 3rd place they then cannot place the others in the class - ie they wouldnt' be able to place res or vhc.

So, whislt the Jnr dog class might be right, i dont think the bitch class will be.

hope that makes sense.
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random
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15-07-2008, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by KateM View Post
It could be that the places are withheld but it maybe a printer error due to an error on the slips returned to the secretary, particularly in the junior bitch class.

a judge could withhold the first place and then give out the rest of the places, in fact they could withhold first and second and give out the rest, but if they withhold 3rd place they then cannot place the others in the class - ie they wouldnt' be able to place res or vhc.

So, whislt the Jnr dog class might be right, i dont think the bitch class will be.

hope that makes sense.
Only thing I can think of for it being correct in the bitch class is if the bitch was later disqualified for some reason after already being placed in this class?
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KateM
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15-07-2008, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by random View Post
Only thing I can think of for it being correct in the bitch class is if the bitch was later disqualified for some reason after already being placed in this class?
I don't think so, pretty sure that once the awards are given out in a class only the KC can revoke the judges decision and that has to be after a meeting of the relevant committee.
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border pop
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15-07-2008, 08:38 PM
seems to of been sorted out now
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AiredaleKate
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16-07-2008, 07:47 AM
Yes, they're correct now, must have been Fossedata having a funny!
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chewymeg
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17-07-2008, 10:45 AM
We went to a Champ show years ago and it was a breed judge he witheld 1st 2nd 3rd and only placed 4th and 5th because he said that in his opinion the dogs were not the correct breed standard and he didnt want to encourage them to be shown.


also one of my Affenpinschers had a 1st witheld he was just 6 mths old and playing like a puppy does, the judge said she witheld it because he should of just stood still & not moved
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border pop
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17-07-2008, 10:57 AM
the judge said she witheld it because he should of just stood still & not moved
OMG! How uptight can somebody get! After all, at 6months they are still v much baby puppies! Showing must be fun for the dog otherwise they will resent it
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GSD-Sue
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17-07-2008, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by chewymeg View Post
We went to a Champ show years ago and it was a breed judge he witheld 1st 2nd 3rd and only placed 4th and 5th because he said that in his opinion the dogs were not the correct breed standard and he didnt want to encourage them to be shown.


also one of my Affenpinschers had a 1st witheld he was just 6 mths old and playing like a puppy does, the judge said she witheld it because he should of just stood still & not moved
I can understand the witholding of 1st 2nd & 3rd if they were qualifiers for Crufts or more importantly for the stud book. I remember once when I had come 2nd in postgrad a dog who had come 5th in my class went into open as an old dog, only 3 of those entered were present & he got 3rd & his stud book number & those of us who had beaten him felt the 3rd place should have been witheld.
Can't understand not giving the first. Either the dog is worthy according to the standard or not, his behavior as a puppy shouldn't count. Yes place him second to a dog of equal merit who is behaving better, but otherwise can't understand unless he was impossible to assess.
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chewymeg
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17-07-2008, 11:34 AM
Otto Stood still while the judge went over him & even let the judge open his mouth, the only thing Otto did was run a bit instead of walking, but he soon calmed down.

Just heard Terry Thorn died last night, looks like we are loosing all the good judges
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