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TheABCs
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16-02-2011, 04:27 PM
Hi, Dawes paws. Not sure why you have the questionmark after Premack? Perhaps you will explain. I think it was probably because you wanted to pick me up on the mis-spelling, but not sure. My dog doesn't have a hearing sensitivity - she's very unphased by noise. If she was noise sensitive, why would I have used a rattle bottle? I had a collie cross who was noise sensitive - there was no way I would have used his noise sensitivity to train him. My lurcher was a very focussed dog to the extent that she would go rigid, and you would be unable to move her head or body, either by encouragement or even by physical means - the sudden noise from the rattle bottle broke through that focus, and allowed her to "come back down to earth" for want of a better description in a kind of "oh-there-you-are" fashion.

In fact, most of the time, the Premack Principle applies to her as well...
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sarah1983
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16-02-2011, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Because its true!

http://www.youtube.com/user/panzerto...45/Q5T7Lh6X1Ww

Note dog being stimmed at 100 multiple times in the video.

Adam
So Adam, if it doesn't hurt how on earth does it stop a dog carrying out behaviour it has learned is extremely rewarding?

Just for the record, I was looking for help stopping Rupert chasing sheep. His desire to do so means he's actually kept leashed in the garden never mind other places. We're lucky here in that we have a field he cannot escape from, we may not be so lucky in the next place.
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 04:32 PM
Lol wasn't me who said that think it was tassle.
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Chris
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16-02-2011, 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Seeing as I can't start threads on e collars I will ask a question on here.

For the past 10 or 20 years reward based methods have taken off, both in this country and abroad.
Many of the big organisations only advocate reward based and the doggy press is full of it.

Why then are sales of e collars going up 30% year on year?
This is a Denis statement - he's been claiming it for as long as I've been using dog forums which is a long, long time. Where do the manufacturers publish this information? Surely, if it's true, it will be posted with exact figures on their websites??

Why are prong collars becoming increasingly popular?
They're not as far as I can see. However, you have made a very definite statement so, no doubt you have the proof to back up your claim?

If reward based is so good and you don't need anything else how come averisve seems to be the new thing?
They aren't to any great degree. However, the likes of Milan and Dog Borstal does see temporary rises in the use of rattle bottles etc. The power of the media . Dangerous stuff.

So Adam, put up or shut up - show us some proof.
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by sarah1983 View Post
So Adam, if it doesn't hurt how on earth does it stop a dog carrying out behaviour it has learned is extremely rewarding?

Just for the record, I was looking for help stopping Rupert chasing sheep. His desire to do so means he's actually kept leashed in the garden never mind other places. We're lucky here in that we have a field he cannot escape from, we may not be so lucky in the next place.

Hi Sarah i see you are local to me. Im currently working with some car chasers using positive methods.
Apologies if i shouldn't be doing this on here. Pm me Sarah if you wish i
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 04:38 PM
Adam; you haven't answered a question from OP ; what will you do if/when prong and e collars are banned? just kick the dog instead?!
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Chris
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16-02-2011, 04:38 PM
By the way, Adam. The degree you boasted about. I raised a few questions which you seem to have overlooked. If you don't want to answer them, fair enough, but, of course, if you don't want to answer queries about your degree, you really shouldn't use the fact that you have one to try to impress
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Chris
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16-02-2011, 04:40 PM
computer blip - thought the last post had been lost
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TheABCs
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16-02-2011, 04:42 PM
Dawes paws seem to have missed my questions too, Brierley. Must be catching!

And here's another selection of questions for you, Dawes Paws. How many lurchers have you owned and trained, and of what types of breeding? If you have less experience of training lurchers than I have, why would I come to you for training, or accept your advice? If you accepted a dog owner and dog for training to stop it chasing cars, and it still did and was killed doing so, would you accept responsibility for your training failing? I ask this because I read on a forum about exactly this scenario happening - the owner was devastated.
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by TheABCs View Post
Dawes paws seem to have missed my questions too, Brierley. Must be catching!

And here's another question for you, Dawes Paws. How many lurchers have you owned and trained, and of what types of breeding? If you accepted a dog owner and dog for training to stop it chasing cars, and it still did and was killed doing so, would you accept responsibility for your training failing? I ask this because I read on a forum about exactly this scenario happening - the owner was devastated.

I answered you just before brierly posted; it wasn't me who said it
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