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SLB
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16-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Slb, just see my earlier posts re dogs senses and DW post re dogs on lead getting eaten. He/she does live there after all.

Adam
Well obviously they are too close to the water or have been feeding the gators - they are naturally afraid of humans so if one was accompanying a dog - they wouldn't approach unless humans had been feeding them, Wow - doesn't that make sense. Animals aren't stupid - people are.
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wilbar
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16-02-2011, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Does anyone else feel that Adam is ruining this forum?
Am I alone in beginning to put off opening threads if I see he has posted because he is making me feel ill?
Enough, already!
Oh & I was just about to start a thread on how to stop a dog being run over by a jumbo jet, eaten by hyenas, attacked by a brontosaurus, cooked by cannibals, sucked dry by a vampire
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Moonstone
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16-02-2011, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
Apologies Moonstone. I brought you into this and shouldn't have. I used your excellent training as an example of how dogs can be trained without physical aversives in very demanding environments because 'snake avoidance' is often used by e-collar supporters of the 'do or die' scenario that they think wins them arguments.

Apologies again and congratulations again on your very successful example of how we can be fair to dogs and still keep them safe

It's okay x x

It's Adam's sniffy attitude, that bothered me most, which is why I replied, when I said I was not going to comment on these threads anymore
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ClaireandDaisy
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16-02-2011, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by wilbar View Post
Oh & I was just about to start a thread on how to stop a dog being run over by a jumbo jet, eaten by hyenas, attacked by a brontosaurus, cooked by cannibals, sucked dry by a vampire
Not got a problem with any of that... it`s getting over-run by trolls that`s hacking me off.
I should stay away from rickety bridges maybe.
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Lionhound
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16-02-2011, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Does anyone else feel that Adam is ruining this forum?
Am I alone in beginning to put off opening threads if I see he has posted because he is making me feel ill?
Enough, already!
I was just thinking the other day that Adam will put people off posting about training issues incase he casts them up to them in a totally unrelated collar thread (as he has done on numerous occasions).

He is indeed one sick puppy.
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Crysania
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16-02-2011, 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
The world is a dangerouse place for dogs tbh, cars other dogs, snakes gators. It just depends on were you live.

Making sweeping idoitic statements about not having a dog in a dangerouse situation won't help anyone.

Btw snakes are more of a risk than gators (overall) and yes people do use e collars (very successfully) to train dogs to avoid them.

The more I read of some of the posters on here the less I think they actualy know what they are talking about.

Adam
Funny Adam. That's what we think of you. But we didn't need as many posts as you've made to make us realize how little you know.

You're still showing a lot of logic fail. In order to train your dog the way you suggest you're going to have to FIND a gator, let your dog get close enough to it, and then shock the hell out of it in order to make the pain ENOUGH to stop it from investigating. So are you going to potentially let your dog become gator bait just to teach it this lesson?

Putting the dog on a leash makes sense. Keeping the dog away from the water makes sense. If the dog looks alert and wants to head into the area near the water DON'T LET IT. What is so hard about that?
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Adam P
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16-02-2011, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania View Post
Funny Adam. That's what we think of you. But we didn't need as many posts as you've made to make us realize how little you know.

You're still showing a lot of logic fail. In order to train your dog the way you suggest you're going to have to FIND a gator, let your dog get close enough to it, and then shock the hell out of it in order to make the pain ENOUGH to stop it from investigating. So are you going to potentially let your dog become gator bait just to teach it this lesson?

Putting the dog on a leash makes sense. Keeping the dog away from the water makes sense. If the dog looks alert and wants to head into the area near the water DON'T LET IT. What is so hard about that?
Read the first post. DW's dogs were close enough to the gator to be interest/aware of it, hence close enough to train!

Adam
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Crysania
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16-02-2011, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Read the first post. DW's dogs were close enough to the gator to be interest/aware of it, hence close enough to train!

Adam
And close enough to be eaten. I wouldn't want to risk the dog making the WRONG connection and running TOWARD the gators. Have you considered that? The dog may not have any idea why you're shocking the crap out of it and may run right where you don't want it to.
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magpye
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16-02-2011, 06:55 PM
I am curious... There is a sort of unwritten second question to this thread..

How would you use a shock collar to teach a dog about alligators?

Alligators are superb ambush predators that submerge themselves almost completely in water to mask their scent and disguise their outline from their potential prey. You could train your dogs to fear the alligator they could see and smell using adversives, this I can see, but then as has been pointed out.. avoiding the alligator you can see is easy enough, just pull them away, keep them on lead, train a good recall, walk somewhere else.. But a hunting alligator is a different thing... An alligator actively hunting is nigh on invisible. so.. do you ecollar train the dog to keep away from all water edges? or all shrubs and bushes?

Or are you just going to train to avoid the alligator they see, but maybe that you don't... Like the one that has climbed your fence (there are recorded cases of gators scaling 8ft chainlink fences to get to water)... In which case any training method that can teach a dog to act calmly but avoid something will work and e collar training would be the most tricky in this case as you'd need the equivalent of an alligator in a box then set the dog up to be curious and shock it if it went anywhere near the box.. How do you ensure in this case that the dog is not learning to avoid boxes? back this up with stuffed alligator? Or alligator behind chainlink.. I've got to be completely honest I truly cant see how the training works...

Regardless of the training method you use you cant eliminate the risk that your dog will be eaten by a gator.. Any more than someone in australia could eliminate the potential of their dog being bitten by a deadly spider, or in russia that the dog could be carried off by eagle owls... you are in the gator's territory and they have been hunting for thousands of years before we were even evolved! short of move out of the everglades, gator attacks are just another hazard you have to learn to deal with.

Stay as clear as you can from places you know alligators may be, teach your dog a good down and recall command in case of a gator you see that they haven't or them going into an area you perceive as higher risk and just relax safe in the knowledge that gator attacks on dogs are rarer than lottery wins..

More people have won the state lottery in florida than have had their dogs eaten by gators.. so relax.. Put the ecollar away and buy a lottery ticket! If you win, you can move somewhere gator free!
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mishflynn
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16-02-2011, 07:38 PM
i volunnteer AP to fit the Ecollars to the gATORS,then we can zap the s**t out of them if they see a dog!
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