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rune
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15-02-2011, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
From my knowledge of snake training.

The dog often becomes aware of the snake (smell) way before the human. The dog will then take evasive action.

An example with the snake training is one of the first e collar documents I read had a piece on this, it advised that once the dog was trained the owner should be aware of any spots the dog avoided as a snake would be there.

So if the dog is on lead and senses a gator the dog will jump away and hopefully get enough distance to avoid being eaten.

Adam
Leaving the handler to be eaten----EXCELLENT!!

rune
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Crysania
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16-02-2011, 01:48 AM
So Darkwolf you basically came here to taunt people because you like to use e-collars. Got it. I'm not seeing much room for discussion with you here. since you keep making flounce posts about how awful we are.


There's a major logic fail here. If you cannot see the gator until it grabs your dog. If it's hiding in the brush and the dog cannot recognize it's there. There is NO WAY your e-collar would work. And there is no way to avoid them then.

"Avoidance training" doesn't really work when one cannot avoid something until it's on top of them.

However, everything I've read says to keep a bit further away from the edge of water and keep your pet on a leash.

(Also, I compared it to moving cars; you know, traffic...turning it into something about parked cars is ridiculous.)
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Moonstone
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16-02-2011, 05:09 AM
I choose to walk about twice a week in a place that has a lot of alligators, they fascinate me. For me it's simple, when we walk there, the dogs stay on the leads, I keep to the trails,and avoid the waters edge.

How can an E Collar help, if you can't see the alligator

As already been stated avoidance training is only good, if you can see the thing you are avoiding.

Adam, I guess you are talking about me and the snakes, I don't care what you think,about my methods, how long it took etc. as I don't rate your opinion, and think you are cruel man. It took as long as needed, for me to be confident of them reacting the way I wanted. No quick fix, on a clock, I went at their pace.
It might not be your way, but it's mine, and seeing as they are my dogs, stop dragging them into stupid E Collar threads.

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Wysiwyg
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16-02-2011, 07:33 AM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
...

If you trust a remote device you are very likely to come unstuck relatively quickly. Malfunction, battery run down, lack of concentration on your part so not pressing the button quickly enough, or simply being taken by surprise when your dog is away from you off lead can all lead to a 'gater 1, dog 0' situation. You have a far better chance of keeping your dogs safe by training them not to chase/lunge out or 'go play' with other animals without your permission.
Exactly.

I'd never risk it with a dog I loved.
To be honest, if the situation is as bad as you say in your particular area, I'd not have a dog.

I really love my dogs. To think of them being taken by an allligator would always truly concern me, and I'd simply rather not live with that worry for the duration of that dog's life.

Please realise I'm not trying to pass judgement, this is just how i personally would react to the situation as stated.

Wys
x
ETA just seen more info. re how the dogs got there, after writing this. So take this as a very general post.
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Wysiwyg
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16-02-2011, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
I would never trust my dog's safety to a battery operated remote control that relies on being quick off the mark in unexpected circumstances to pick it up and find the button, let alone mess about with the levels it has on it
Agree, dogs have died because people have relied on collars - I know of a Great Dane that died because the owner relied on the collar.

Wys
x
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wilbar
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16-02-2011, 07:42 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Exactly.

I'd never risk it with a dog I loved.
To be honest, if the situation is as bad as you say in your particular area, I'd not have a dog.

I really love my dogs. To think of them being taken by an allligator would always truly concern me, and I'd simply rather not live with that worry for the duration of that dog's life.

Please realise I'm not trying to pass judgement, this is just how i personally would react to the situation as stated.

Wys
x

I did ask earlier in this thread if alligators were a big problem for dog owners in the everglades but I haven't had a reply ~ only that, it seems, it is a possibility that a dog could be taken by an alligator, on lead or off lead. So what happens to children playing in the yard, or walking past a bush where an alligator might be lurking, or other pets like cats? How do kids manage to play in the yard if alligators are such a problem?

I'm struggling to understand why the OP considers that it is such a problem, & that only his dogs are affected by this? I'm also struggling to see how the use of such a strong aversive could possibly & practically be used to train "alligator avoidance"!

I'm off to do some research on alligators attacks on dogs in the everglades
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Wysiwyg
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16-02-2011, 07:42 AM
Originally Posted by Crysania View Post
...

There's a major logic fail here. If you cannot see the gator until it grabs your dog. If it's hiding in the brush and the dog cannot recognize it's there. There is NO WAY your e-collar would work. And there is no way to avoid them then.

...)


I would say some alligators have had huge rewards previously if they've taken a dog or cat from a yard, so those alligators will be almost "hunting" any neighbourhood dogs/cats... it would take a lot to constantly avoid a hunting predator for ever.

Also, what happens when the dog gets older and becomes perhaps, deafer, stiffer, not able to scent or see so well?

At some stage, considering the info we are given about living with dogs in the everglades, I'd say it was almost certain that a dog would become prey at some stage in its life.

I agree it may be best to do what parents do with their toddlers - IF toddlers live in the Everglades *shudder*

Wys
x
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Chris
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16-02-2011, 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by Moonstone View Post
I choose to walk about twice a week in a place that has a lot of alligators, they fascinate me. For me it's simple, when we walk there, the dogs stay on the leads, I keep to the trails,and avoid the waters edge.

How can an E Collar help, if you can't see the alligator

As already been stated avoidance training is only good, if you can see the thing you are avoiding.

Adam, I guess you are talking about me and the snakes, I don't care what you think,about my methods, how long it took etc. as I don't rate your opinion, and think you are cruel man. It took as long as needed, for me to be confident of them reacting the way I wanted. No quick fix, on a clock, I went at their pace.
It might not be your way, but it's mine, and seeing as they are my dogs, stop dragging them into stupid E Collar threads.

Apologies Moonstone. I brought you into this and shouldn't have. I used your excellent training as an example of how dogs can be trained without physical aversives in very demanding environments because 'snake avoidance' is often used by e-collar supporters of the 'do or die' scenario that they think wins them arguments.

Apologies again and congratulations again on your very successful example of how we can be fair to dogs and still keep them safe
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promarc
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16-02-2011, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Leads/long lines are no guarante.

I have seen enough dogs do ''the bad thing'' when on a long line or lead to know that this is not a solution.

I regularly (we're talking lots here) get calls from people whose dog attacked dog/person on lead or who broke free and attacked sheep/horse or who broke free and nearly got flattened ect.
And in one very sad case a pair of dogs who got loose and ran across a road, only one made it to the other side.

I would never trust my dogs safety to a bit of rope tbh.

Adam
your off your trolley adam if they did that then they didnt fit a collar (not that barbaric thing you use) harness etc properly then did they pure and simple. adam im getting really sick of you lurking and jumping on a thread as soon as an e collar is mentioned. your a troll a menace to the canine world and should disappear. you would not trust your dog on a piece of rope yeah cos we know you love to zapp them in a sick way. i trust my dog 100% on the thinest piece of a dog lead, so this is were it goes wrong no trust and lack of training, so if your getting lots of phone calls because of this then maybe they shouldnt have a dog. as for you do us all a favour and go away, im sick of reading your barbaric post's and the constant i love to zapp dogs because your a lazy barbaric person.
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wilbar
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16-02-2011, 08:45 AM
I've had a quick google of alligator attacks on dogs in Florida. The link below suggests common sense ways of keeping safe from alligators.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw230

It appears that dogs are attacked occasionally, & more often than humans, because humans are considered too big to be prey, whilst a dog is not. But obviously the attacks on dogs are rare enough to make headline news when they do happen though!

And the article also suggests that alligators can scale fences that are not high enough, so that anyone with children is advised to make sure the fencing around their yard is high enough to prevent alligators getting in ~ why can't the same apply to dog owners?

Keeping dogs on lead around the water's edge, stopping children from playing too near the water, not feeding alligators, not simming in the rivers,creeks etc, are all just common sense ways to prevent alligator attacks.

I really don't see why anyone would (or could) have to resort to inflicting electric shocks on a dog in the interests of trying to make a dog avoid alligators. It would be an extremely unreliable & potentially dangerous method to use ~ not to say the emotional fallout & other damage it could do to the dog ~ when just common sense seems to work for most people!
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