register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Adam P
Almost a Veteran
Adam P is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
Male 
 
15-02-2011, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by wilbar View Post
Just out of interest, are alligators a big problem for dogs in the everglades? Are many dogs taken by alligator every year, & are these dogs always off lead? Are alligators rife on the streets of the everglades? What do other dog owners in the everglades do?


And if such a strong aversive were used, how on earth could you control/predict the appearance & behaviour of the alligators? You've already said your dogs reacted differently to the stuffed alligators, so that couldn't be an option (& would be very unreliable if it were!)

Not trying to be sarcastic ~ genuine questions as to why you seem to see using a strong aversive as the only option to manage your problem.
With snake avoidance they use a live snake (contained in a mesh cage) and when the dog focues on it they use the colalr and pull the dog away. It's basically about training the dog to avoid the snake and the area surrounding a snake.

Once this is done the dog is aware of snakes as ''something to avoid'' and will make an effort to avoid them.

With snakes the dog will often smell it and divert its route to avoid the area.

I guess with gators you do something similar. It seems DW was able to get his dogs nearish to live gators, that would be when you do the stim/pull away technique.

Adam
Reply With Quote
Chris
Dogsey Veteran
Chris is offline  
Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,451
Female 
 
15-02-2011, 06:41 PM
You would train to avoid alligators in just the same way you would train to avoid anything else. You would manage (with the aid of a lead) until you were 100% confident in your training.

If you trust a remote device you are very likely to come unstuck relatively quickly. Malfunction, battery run down, lack of concentration on your part so not pressing the button quickly enough, or simply being taken by surprise when your dog is away from you off lead can all lead to a 'gater 1, dog 0' situation. You have a far better chance of keeping your dogs safe by training them not to chase/lunge out or 'go play' with other animals without your permission.
Reply With Quote
Adam P
Almost a Veteran
Adam P is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
Male 
 
15-02-2011, 06:47 PM
The idea is after the training the dog maintains the behaviour itself, so the dog can be out of sight of you and will avoid gators.
Certainly this is not the case with a lead!

These methods were invented for working gundogs who were worked off lead in environments with snakes/gators ect.

Adam
Reply With Quote
wilbar
Dogsey Veteran
wilbar is offline  
Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
Female 
 
15-02-2011, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
With snake avoidance they use a live snake (contained in a mesh cage) and when the dog focues on it they use the colalr and pull the dog away. It's basically about training the dog to avoid the snake and the area surrounding a snake.

Once this is done the dog is aware of snakes as ''something to avoid'' and will make an effort to avoid them.

With snakes the dog will often smell it and divert its route to avoid the area.

I guess with gators you do something similar. It seems DW was able to get his dogs nearish to live gators, that would be when you do the stim/pull away technique.

Adam
Thanks Adam but that doesn't really answer my questions.

I'm quite aware of how ecollars are used ~ that wasn't what I asked. The practicalities of getting a live alligator in a cage so the owner could train his dog is laughable, but perhaps all the dog owners in the everglades make appointments with Ally the Alligator at the neighbourhood zoo

And unless alligators are predictably in the same spot, when DW happens to be nearby with his dog, who also happens to be wearing an ecollar ~ well it's kinda not going to happen!

Now I am being sarccastic!
Reply With Quote
Adam P
Almost a Veteran
Adam P is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
Male 
 
15-02-2011, 06:49 PM
Just read the DW first post, he obviously managed to show his dogs a live gator with very little trouble.

Adam
Reply With Quote
Chris
Dogsey Veteran
Chris is offline  
Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,451
Female 
 
15-02-2011, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
The idea is after the training the dog maintains the behaviour itself, so the dog can be out of sight of you and will avoid gators.
and this is the idea with all training <sigh>

However, in the opening post in this thread is this comment:

"I can't take the chance of them not listening to me that one time".

which suggest that the OP is relying on an e-collar as a maintenance measure, ie see dog approach alligator, push the button to stop the advance - or maybe I read it incorrectly?????

We have a member on the board who lives in the US who has trained her dogs to avoid snakes without an e-collar. What makes you think that alligator avoidance is any different?
Reply With Quote
DarkWolf
New Member!
DarkWolf is offline  
Location: Florida, USA
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4
Female 
 
15-02-2011, 07:05 PM
I wasn't going to bother coming back here but I am going to post one last time.

Avoid gators: In case you missed it, I live in the Everglades. They can come in to the yard. A bit hard to avoid them in those cases even if I were going to take my dogs directly from the house to the car.

How do other people in FL manage: Most of them don't live in the Everglades. Even so, alligators reside all over FL. And some people DON'T manage. They lose their dogs to the gators.

Gators are like cars: Not even close. With cars, I'm pretty dang sure I'm going to know where a car is passing by. I can walk my dogs up to a car, parked, and that car is not going to eat my dogs. I can, with assistance of another person, teach my dogs not to chase cars or go near moving vehicles. This is not possible with an alligator.

Gators can hide in lakes, canals, streams, brush, etc. And it doesn't matter one whit if my dogs are attached to the leash or not, an alligator has NO PROBLEM taking the dog right off of that leash. It has happened several times to other people. Of course I don't let my dogs, (lab mixes), play in the lakes and canals. But I do have to take them for a walk and to take them out to go to the bathroom.

Now, we can all sit here and state that "I would take MY dog 8 miles up the road!" but that doesn't mean it's "SAFE", it just means that we are now in some sort of civilization. It does not mean there are no gators there. And, let's live in reality, I am not going to drive 8 miles up the road each and every single time my dogs have to use the bathroom. Not at 8 in the morning, not at 1 in the afternoon, 5 in the afternoon, 8 at night and just before bed. They need to learn to get along in their environment.

I suppose someone would say, "Oh then you shouldn't have dogs." These dogs were dumped out here, in the Everglades, by idiots. It would have been so much better to just leave them out there where they would, for sure, be killed? They were 3 months old when they were tossed out here, like garbage, and didn't have a clue about the wildlife.

Or perhaps they should have gone to the pound instead. MAYBE someone would come along in 5 days and adopt them. Maybe they would have been put down, instead. I'm sure those were much better alternatives, right?

As for rune, you are a very nasty individual. I hope that whatever happened in your life to make you so bitter and rude, resolves itself. It's sad that someone should go through their life as hateful as you are.

To add again, I had no idea who Adam was before coming on to this site today. But I do see how people have been towards him. Is it warranted? I don't know, I haven't read all of his posts. But keep in mind, at the same time you are so against everything he says, you have offered no solutions other than to say, 'I wouldn't walk my dogs out there' or make sarcastic comments. I have yet to see him, in any of the posts I did read that he wrote, him being rude to any of you.

You can hate e-collars, that's fine. We all have our own opinions. But some of you need to speak to others rationally instead of in shrill hysterical voices. Because that's what I've seen from one or two of you.

I thought this was going to be a cool place to hang out but I'm thinking I don't need this attitude even if it's one person. There's enough negativity in this world, I can't believe people argue about dogs. I guess it's true, people WILL argue about anything.

Have a great day and I'll find other, friendlier forums to frequent.
Reply With Quote
Lionhound
Dogsey Veteran
Lionhound is offline  
Location: Elsewhere
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,227
Female 
 
15-02-2011, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by DarkWolf View Post
I could say a difference would be that cars don't typically hang out in the brush.

Nonetheless, because of the poster above asking if this is ok to talk about here, I'm going to forego responding further because I don't know if it is, either, as I stated in my first post.

I do want to know how it would be done but I don't know where to ask this question and am fearful that starting yet another thread, (from what I've read so far, there were many), about e-collars.

So I'll just wait to see what the mods want.

Edit: Ok, they moved it. I really didn't want to start a new thread on this subject. I think I'm just going to delete the membership....this is probably not going to go well.
If you are genuinely looking for other options from other trainers then go nowhere, there is a wealth of knowledge within this forum that may give you some new ideas. Also we have the love of dogs in common which you also seem to have as you are looking to keep yours safe. So bear with us

For me E collars are a big no no as even our pet electric collar salesman will tell you that they are not 100% reliable. You could go down this route and still end up with a dead dog. IMO a lead is the only option.

I also have to travel 8 miles to take my 2 dogs a safe, off lead walk as I have a hound and a mutt with very strong prey drives and live in sheep country. Yes the sheep cannot kill but a farmer with his gun cerainly can, so i take no chances.

Good luck
Reply With Quote
rubythebeagle
Dogsey Senior
rubythebeagle is offline  
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 250
Female 
 
15-02-2011, 07:16 PM
If you live in such threat of Alligators could you not keep yours dogs on a lead when you take them out?

Not ideal, but atleast they would be close to you at all times so as you can help to keep them away from danger.
Reply With Quote
TabithaJ
Dogsey Veteran
TabithaJ is offline  
Location: London, UK
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,498
Female 
 
15-02-2011, 07:29 PM
I'm not a trainer but just to say:

1 - if you must use an aversive, why not a spray collar or a vibrating/pager collar?

2 - why not just keep your dog on a long line if alligators are a problem? Why risk letting them off leash at all if it's such a serious threat?


Also just to mention: I have no idea and actually don't care if Dark Wolf is connected with Adam.

I do think that we should all, always be polite because - much as I disagree with Adam's methods - he is polite pretty much all of the time in his responses on this website.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 16 < 1 2 3 4 5 12 > Last »


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top