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DarkWolf
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DarkWolf is offline  
Location: Florida, USA
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4
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15-02-2011, 05:40 PM

How do you teach a dog about alligators without the use of an e-collar?

Hi everyone.

I came across this site today and thought this would be a great place to hang out. I'm seeing that most people are from the UK....I'm from the states and didn't realize this as I just get a .com address, not a uk address.

I had no intention of coming on here to talk about e-collars, I was actually interested in reading the raw feeding section as I do this with my dogs.

In the process of signing up and waiting for my email, I went to the training section to see what people do. And somehow, I ended up on this thread.

I've read a few pages and it seems, from what I've read, that some people here are trainers? Is this correct?

If so, and I'm NOT trying to start a debate, I simply would like to know how you trainers would handle teaching a dog about alligators without the use of an e-collar.

I live in Florida, I have alligators all around me as I live in the Everglades. To take my dog for a walk somewhere else requires that we get in to the car and drive at the very least 8 miles up the road. That's not especially conducive to the dogs when they have to go to the bathroom.

With alligators, you get one chance. That's it. There is no second chance. With a high prey dog, as I have, I have attempted to teach them about gators. I have shown them gators that were in an exhibit and their fur went up, they barked like madmen and they backed away. I thought, "Brilliant! That's the reaction I want!!"

I then brought them to the edge of the water right outside my home. I did not put them close enough for the gator to lunge at them and get them, I brought them close enough for them to see the gator, in the wild. I was hoping for the same reaction as the ones in the exhibit.

This did not happen. They actually started lunging towards the gator, (they were on leash, of course), and wanted to get close to it.

I'm all for marker and clicker training and long lead training and work, work, work, work, work but again, with alligators, one chance only.

I can't take the chance of them not listening to me that one time.

So, trainers, what would you recommend instead?

I ask this sincerely. I know this is a hot debate and some people are for e-collars with basic training, (I am not when it comes to basic training, I think that's ridiculous), and some people are adamantly against e-collars for every thing.

I would like to know how you would handle teaching your dogs that when they see an alligator, they stay away. Keeping in mind, they get one chance.

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this here, I'm a little confused. It seems that it's ok to talk about this stuff if the OP started it but it seems that unless I say, "e-collars are the devil's toy", I'm not allowed to say anything...it's a little confusing and I certainly do not want to start a thread asking this question because of the emotions that are felt by so many on both sides.

I really would like to know what you, trainers or those who are against e-collars, would do in this situation.

Finally, if this is only for UK dwellers, I'll move on. Just let me know.

Thanks.
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Crysania
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA
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15-02-2011, 05:46 PM
I don't see the alligator thing as all that different from, say, cars. It only takes one moment for a dog to run out in front of a car and get killed. So I'm ultimately not sure what the issue is.

For me, just like I do in my city neighborhood where I live (also in the USA), I keep my dog on leash in dangerous areas. I don't let her approach the road where she could get hit. I keep her close and keep an eye out.

And when I want to take her for a longer off leash walk, I go someplace safe.
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Tupacs2legs
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15-02-2011, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania View Post
I don't see the alligator thing as all that different from, say, cars. It only takes one moment for a dog to run out in front of a car and get killed. So I'm ultimately not sure what the issue is.

For me, just like I do in my city neighborhood where I live (also in the USA), I keep my dog on leash in dangerous areas. I don't let her approach the road where she could get hit. I keep her close and keep an eye out.

And when I want to take her for a longer off leash walk, I go someplace safe.
my thoughts too

and heck ,whats an 8 mile drive to a safe offlead place i have to take my lot on a 50 min train ride
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Tupacs2legs
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15-02-2011, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crysania
I don't see the alligator thing as all that different from, say, cars. It only takes one moment for a dog to run out in front of a car and get killed. So I'm ultimately not sure what the issue is.

For me, just like I do in my city neighborhood where I live (also in the USA), I keep my dog on leash in dangerous areas. I don't let her approach the road where she could get hit. I keep her close and keep an eye out.

And when I want to take her for a longer off leash walk, I go someplace safe.
my thoughts too


and heck ,whats an 8 mile drive to a safe offlead place i have to take my lot on a 50 min train ride
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DarkWolf
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15-02-2011, 05:52 PM
I could say a difference would be that cars don't typically hang out in the brush.

Nonetheless, because of the poster above asking if this is ok to talk about here, I'm going to forego responding further because I don't know if it is, either, as I stated in my first post.

I do want to know how it would be done but I don't know where to ask this question and am fearful that starting yet another thread, (from what I've read so far, there were many), about e-collars.

So I'll just wait to see what the mods want.

Edit: Ok, they moved it. I really didn't want to start a new thread on this subject. I think I'm just going to delete the membership....this is probably not going to go well.
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Adam P
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15-02-2011, 05:59 PM
I agree Darkwolf, there are some behaviours that you cannot train without the use of an e collar.

Of course you may choose to manage the dog (though this will at some point breakdown) but that will often have a negative impact on your and the dogs quality of life.

Adam
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Azz
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15-02-2011, 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by DarkWolf View Post
I could say a difference would be that cars don't typically hang out in the brush.

Nonetheless, because of the poster above asking if this is ok to talk about here, I'm going to forego responding further because I don't know if it is, either, as I stated in my first post.

I do want to know how it would be done but I don't know where to ask this question and am fearful that starting yet another thread, (from what I've read so far, there were many), about e-collars.

So I'll just wait to see what the mods want.
Just to clarify - it's ok for any member to start threads about any topic they want (unless they have been directly asked not to, by admin, or unless otherwise stated by our terms of use - ie such as threads inciting hatred etc). The partial ban just requires that shock collars are mentioned in the first post before replying, and that the thread is a new one started after the date of the announcement (this is to stop 'certain people' dragging up old threads).
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Dawes Paws
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15-02-2011, 06:11 PM
Even if you had trained your dog to the absolute highest degree with or without an e-collar, even if the dog knew completely that gators were a bad thing and avoids them like the plague, I STILL wouldn't let my dog off lead where they may be lurking. No matter how the dog avoids them if a gator is hiding in a bush/ rivers edge and decides your dog looks tasty it would still attempt to grab it! nope wouldn't be taking my dogs anywhere near a place that might have gator
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DarkWolf
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Location: Florida, USA
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15-02-2011, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
LOL---another of Adams imports---two posts and one is this one.

Sad really.

One does wonder how other people in Florida manage---I have a friend there with a pit bull type and they are fine without one.

rune
Nice, rune. I don't know Adam and I'm not an import of his. Thanks for the warm welcome.

I can't figure out how to delete this membership but if this is the attitude I am going to receive, I'd just as well the mods go ahead and take care of that, please.

As for the last poster, thank you for taking the time to respond.
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wilbar
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15-02-2011, 06:15 PM
Just out of interest, are alligators a big problem for dogs in the everglades? Are many dogs taken by alligator every year, & are these dogs always off lead? Are alligators rife on the streets of the everglades? What do other dog owners in the everglades do?


And if such a strong aversive were used, how on earth could you control/predict the appearance & behaviour of the alligators? You've already said your dogs reacted differently to the stuffed alligators, so that couldn't be an option (& would be very unreliable if it were!)

Not trying to be sarcastic ~ genuine questions as to why you seem to see using a strong aversive as the only option to manage your problem.
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