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SLB
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09-02-2011, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
slb i havnt compared you..i was just using what you said as an example as its ap's kinda twisted logic.. dont take offence.......purleese
OK - I won't take offence and I apologise for my mix up

And SmokeyBear - a good workman never blames his tools. The idiots who abuse the tools are to blame, it is there rubbish delivery that makes the tool useless. If I had a penny for everytime I gave up on the Redlight/green light method - I'd be going to the bank to exchange it, but then the same can be said for the amount of times I have gone back to it, realising it was me that wasn't working, not the method. I have also given up on the Clicker several times, but still rely on it..I am feeling the same way for the whistle - but I realise that it is me expecting too much too soon. Dogs are not robots - for anyone thing to work for them and the owner - it needs work, surely you would know that.
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Adam P
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09-02-2011, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by SLB View Post
I know, I know, I know..but I don't use them anymore - I saw the errors of my ways and I fixed it. Sadie was never walked on a choker...just clipped onto one until I was out of sight, she was never walked on it.

I am quite upset you compare me to AP - [B]I used it to get attention on the food, not to punish. I never ever would rely on negative reinforcement to get my dogs[/B] to do anything..
That is pretty much how/why I use aversives to redirect into wanted behaviours. However using an aversive will use negative reinforcment.

Adam
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smokeybear
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09-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Well often those people testing at Shows are merely judges etc who have not gone on the KC course!

They were incorrect to disallow this practice

This is one of the reasons the training courses were devised to bring consistency to the scheme.

I have seen some GHASTLY tests where people have been allowed 6 attempts at the stay, when it CLEARLY states in the guidelines that no second attempts are permitted EXCEPT in extraordinary circumstances.

That is why some of the certificates some people hold with their dogs are, IMHO, not worth the paper they are written on!

And it undermines the achievements of those who HAVE trained their dogs correctly.
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SLB
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09-02-2011, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
That is pretty much how/why I use aversives to redirect into wanted behaviours.

Adam
Yes but I am in no way like you. I don't like to inflict pain...
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smokeybear
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09-02-2011, 06:06 PM
And SmokeyBear - a good workman never blames his tools. The idiots who abuse the tools are to blame, it is there rubbish delivery that makes the tool useless

EXACTLY what I said!
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Tupacs2legs
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09-02-2011, 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by SLB View Post
Yes but I am in no way like you. I don't like to inflict pain...
nope AP is a bully!!! (imo )
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Chris
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09-02-2011, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
and I have been told by various people that you CAN'T take a good citizen test with one.

You may have been told lots of things, but I can tell you as a KC approved GC Examiner (Gold) that you CAN take any of the tests with a choke chain.

It is simple to verify, the KC produce a booklet for clubs, trainers, examiners and candidates that clearly states that NO examiner can refuse to test the dog because they do not like the collar you use! It is only 3 and KC registered clubs that administer the scheme were all supplied with these guidelines so you can ask to look at them if you cannot afford a copy of your own.

You are NOT allowed to take the test using a harness or headcollar UNLESS you provide a vet letter to explain why a regular collar is not in use.

HTH
It's a major gripe that many trainers have with the KCGC - tests can't be taken with the dog on a static harness, but can on a choke chain. Disgraceful IMHO
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Rolosmum
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09-02-2011, 06:26 PM
I have both normal and slip leads and my dog will walk on both now without pulling, I use the slip lead if we are just heading out of the car/back gate and lead is used for a few feet to get there and slips off easily cos it fits nicely into my pocket. My dog pulls the same and chokes the same on a collar/lead and a rope slip lead to be honest, he is now learning that walking to heal with either is better, in which case it doesnt matter which one he has on because both hang loose.
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SLB
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09-02-2011, 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
It's a major gripe that many trainers have with the KCGC - tests can't be taken with the dog on a static harness, but can on a choke chain. Disgraceful IMHO
It's because you don't have control over the dog with a harness - apparently.. But tbf I have more control over Louie's whole body with a harness than I do with a collar..
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Chris
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09-02-2011, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by SLB View Post
It's because you don't have control over the dog with a harness - apparently.. But tbf I have more control over Louie's whole body with a harness than I do with a collar..
It's total rubbish. A loose lead is a loose lead. Can the KC understand that? Apparently not.
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