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SLB
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09-02-2011, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
you may as well go down AP's route then.. but only until he responds
.
and do you think all us sibe owners use choke chains? cos if anything is gonna slip its collar its a sibe

imo even if u know 'how to put one on correctly' you are still relying on pain to train/get attention...in this day and age i dont think it is needed or acceptable
I know, I know, I know..but I don't use them anymore - I saw the errors of my ways and I fixed it. Sadie was never walked on a choker...just clipped onto one until I was out of sight, she was never walked on it.

I am quite upset you compare me to AP - I used it to get attention on the food, not to punish. I never ever would rely on negative reinforcement to get my dogs to do anything..
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smokeybear
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09-02-2011, 05:50 PM
Many small dogs are on slip leads as are gundogs (same effect as choke chains) but many breeds are shown on choke chains, often very fine ones like cheese wire.

Again, blasting equipment because you have seen poor delivery is not logical. Many people say clickers are rubbish, or whistles or food, because it is the DELIVERY they focus on rather than the method.

As I said before, you can use a choke chain on the dead link.

If you choose to go to classes which you have not checked out first and then choose not to report them to the KC nothing will ever change.
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Tupacs2legs
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09-02-2011, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Many small dogs are on slip leads as are gundogs (same effect as choke chains) but many breeds are shown on choke chains, often very fine ones like cheese wire.

Again, blasting equipment because you have seen poor delivery is not logical. Many people say clickers are rubbish, or whistles or food, because it is the DELIVERY they focus on rather than the method.

As I said before, you can use a choke chain on the dead link.

If you choose to go to classes which you have not checked out first and then choose not to report them to the KC nothing will ever change.
i seem to be the only person on here that uses slip leads that have a bit to stop it tightening

i wouldnt 'blast' a clicker or food etc.. as they do not inflict pain
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Loki's mum
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09-02-2011, 05:53 PM
Check chains are banned at the club where my dogs train, and I have been told by various people that you CAN'T take a good citizen test with one. The only time my dog wears a slip lead is in the showring, and I don't use it to check her. I trained her to move at the correct pace instead. My male wears a half check to prevent him slipping his collar, and also I found that a flat collar cut his coat wheras his half check is loose the rest of the time.

I see no need to put a check chain on your dog. They are dangerous and they don't work.
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smokeybear
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09-02-2011, 05:54 PM
Quite a lot of people use slip leads without stoppers, including in the show ring and in the field (gundogs).
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Tupacs2legs
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09-02-2011, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by SLB View Post
I know, I know, I know..but I don't use them anymore - I saw the errors of my ways and I fixed it. Sadie was never walked on a choker...just clipped onto one until I was out of sight, she was never walked on it.

I am quite upset you compare me to AP - I used it to get attention on the food, not to punish. I never ever would rely on negative reinforcement to get my dogs to do anything..
slb i havnt compared you..i was just using what you said as an example as its ap's kinda twisted logic.. dont take offence.......purleese
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smokeybear
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09-02-2011, 05:57 PM
and I have been told by various people that you CAN'T take a good citizen test with one.

You may have been told lots of things, but I can tell you as a KC approved GC Examiner (Gold) that you CAN take any of the tests with a choke chain.

It is simple to verify, the KC produce a booklet for clubs, trainers, examiners and candidates that clearly states that NO examiner can refuse to test the dog because they do not like the collar you use! It is only 3 and KC registered clubs that administer the scheme were all supplied with these guidelines so you can ask to look at them if you cannot afford a copy of your own.

You are NOT allowed to take the test using a harness or headcollar UNLESS you provide a vet letter to explain why a regular collar is not in use.

HTH
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Loki's mum
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09-02-2011, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Quite a lot of people use slip leads without stoppers, including in the show ring and in the field (gundogs).
A lot of people in the showring show their dogs on a tight lead. Doesn't make it right IMO. I prefer to show my dogs on a loose lead as I think it's nicer for them and lakes their movement more natural.
For those who do show on a tight lead, how long is the dog in the ring for anyway? Five minutes? How much of that time is the dog moving? 30 seconds? A bit different to walking a dog on a check chain for every walk.

My big male was a persistent puller and at 45 kilos he quite strong. I used training (changing direction etc) to train him and he can walk nicely on the lead now, all without inflicting pain. I wouldn't sell a puppy to someone who was intent on using check chains, and all mu pups will go with an APDT leaflet explaining WHY these things should not be used.
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Loki's mum
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09-02-2011, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
and I have been told by various people that you CAN'T take a good citizen test with one.

You may have been told lots of things, but I can tell you as a KC approved GC Examiner (Gold) that you CAN take any of the tests with a choke chain.

It is simple to verify, the KC produce a booklet for clubs, trainers, examiners and candidates that clearly states that NO examiner can refuse to test the dog because they do not like the collar you use! It is only 3 and KC registered clubs that administer the scheme were all supplied with these guidelines so you can ask to look at them if you cannot afford a copy of your own.

You are NOT allowed to take the test using a harness or headcollar UNLESS you provide a vet letter to explain why a regular collar is not in use.

HTH
Well they haven't been allowed at three different venues, including a champ show, that my dogs have tested at. Not that I would use one anyway.
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smokeybear
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09-02-2011, 06:02 PM
But I have not opined whether it is right or wrong just stated in response to another post that contrary to their opinion choke chains are used in the breed ring.
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