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rune
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24-03-2010, 10:51 AM
Originally Posted by GSDUK View Post
Punishment in Wales for using an e-collar is now higher than the punishment laid out in England for killing a dog by leaving it in a car...or two dogs for that matter.
It is the same as for illegal docking.

rune
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Wysiwyg
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24-03-2010, 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by silv View Post
.

Should we ban electric horse/sheep fencing too?
No, as the animal can at least learn the whereabouts of this in the environment and choose to avoid it.

Although it's always better ideally to have good solid fencing...

Wys
x
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wilbar
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24-03-2010, 11:46 AM
A welcome step towards more humane ways of dealing with behavioural problems ~ lets hope that the ban will be taken up by the rest of the UK ~ tomorrow the world!!!

But I suspect that the manufacturers of the collars will be trying to lobby Parliament to prevent the ban being extended.

And what about other types of collars (citronella sprays, puffs of air, ultrasonic blasts) ~ should these be banned too? Or because they aren't perceived as "painful" to humans, should we let them continue to be used?
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magpye
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24-03-2010, 02:58 PM
A step in the right direction. Let's hope other countries follow and then look to ban the prong collar too.

Interesting to see Wales lead the way in dog welfare for once isn't it... I can't help but feel that with this welfare success they should pursue tighter legislation to prevent puppy farming now too...
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wilbar
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24-03-2010, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by magpye View Post
A step in the right direction. Let's hope other countries follow and then look to ban the prong collar too.

Interesting to see Wales lead the way in dog welfare for once isn't it... I can't help but feel that with this welfare success they should pursue tighter legislation to prevent puppy farming now too...
Yes, I forgot prong collars too.

And yes again to puppy farming legislation if they can find a way.
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ClaireandDaisy
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24-03-2010, 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by magpye View Post
A step in the right direction. Let's hope other countries follow and then look to ban the prong collar too.

Interesting to see Wales lead the way in dog welfare for once isn't it... I can't help but feel that with this welfare success they should pursue tighter legislation to prevent puppy farming now too...
I believe they are finally looking at this. Much overdue, but sorely needed.
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Meg
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24-03-2010, 06:59 PM
There was some man on the radio this morning representing the collar manufacturers talking with Caroline Kisco.

I though Caroline was rather 'weak' and gave him an easy ride ..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/8584551.stm

Someone else was on later saying the ban would lead to more dogs in rescue because their owners wouldn't be able to handle them without an E collar .

I think if anyone is in doubt about the negative effect these collars have on a dog they should watch the Cesar Millan video which was posted on here recently.
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jesterjenn
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24-03-2010, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by silv View Post
Oh well somebody has to disagree with the ban....and here I am!
I think there is possibly a need for these devices in some circumstances.
not all dogs are easily trained and if one of these collars can correct unwanted behaviour in these dogs rather than let them run riot and cause havoc then thats a good thing.
We shall see if there is more unmanagable dogs turn up in Wales' dog shelters!

Should we ban electric horse/sheep fencing too?

The fine of 2000 or 6 months in prison is by far not justifyable!

Just my opinion on the matter
I happen to agree with you.

I don't think banning them is the answer. I think, in the right hands, like all training equipment, they can be a very effective at training a dog out of a behaviour.

I do however think they should be used as a very very last resort, where all other training methods have failed.
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SibeVibe
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24-03-2010, 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by magpye View Post
A step in the right direction. Let's hope other countries follow and then look to ban the prong collar too.

Interesting to see Wales lead the way in dog welfare for once isn't it... I can't help but feel that with this welfare success they should pursue tighter legislation to prevent puppy farming now too...
Oh you so know I'm gonna agree with that Magpye

Well done Wales. Now hopefully the rest of the UK.

Take care.

Seoniad.
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Adam P
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24-03-2010, 09:53 PM
Unfortunatly I think it will cause more problems than it solves. Used properly there very humane and far less aversive to the dog than any other training tool, even compared to positive only training they cause lss stress by only motivating the dog slightly as opposed to having the dog desperate to get the treat or toy.

Lots of times you can't solve a prey drive type behaviour problem without them (certainly not in a realistic timescale). While many trainers ect will then say the dogs managment comes into it (keep on lead around stock) this just isn't fair on the dog in many cases and leads to other issues (destructivness due to lack of exercise). Rehoming is not an option as there just aren't that many homes available for every dog with a training problem. And even if the dog is rehomed to an area without livestock it may immediatly redirect the prey drive onto cats and be back in the same boat.

Ultimatly this will mean more dogs in rescue and more dogs put down. It will also lead to an increase in severe aversive methods for off lead control, certainly you can cure some dogs of their predatory aggression without e collars but the cure is usually emotionally devastating to the dog.

I believe many e collar users will continue using the collars in secret which will lead to them being used in the old style high level correction. Once again more stress than needs be for the dog.

In the past year I've seen what can be achieved with an e collar and have saved several dogs lives. I really think this ban is short sighted.

Adam
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