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View Poll Results: Which CM methods do you use on your dog?
Do you make sure your dog has enough exercise? 26 68.42%
Do you use "calm Energy" when handling your dogs? 7 18.42%
Have you ever used Foot tapping for attention? 1 2.63%
Have you ever used Foot tapping for correction? 0 0%
Have you ever used "tsstg" for attention 1 2.63%
Have you ever used "tsstg" for correction 1 2.63%
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for attention 0 0%
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for correction 0 0%
Do you use prong collars 0 0%
Do you use the illusion collar, or other NONslip slipcollar 0 0%
Have you ever used flooding to overcome your dogs fear 0 0%
Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor 1 2.63%
Have you ever pinned your dog to the fllor for any reason other than aggression 1 2.63%
Do you alpha roll your dog? 0 0%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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youngstevie
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30-09-2009, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Annajayne View Post
Oh, and not the CM exercise way either where they have to stay behind you and you are not supposed to let them stop and sniff and be a dog and god help them if they do because you're going to yank that choke chain.
OK I take what I put back....I am wrong, these run on ahead of me
scarter
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30-09-2009, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
What im Trying to do is to pull the both camps on the common ground.

My dogs are exercised properally & im calm around them, this is not learned via CM , but it is common ground!!!!!
I see exactly what you're getting at. And from discussions on other threads I think a lot of people agree that there is a great deal of common ground.

Here's my answers:

Do you make sure your dog has enough exercise?
YES - VERY imporant! This didn't come from CM, but I did get a lot of good tips from him on the hows, whys and whens of exercise.

Do you use "calm Energy" when handling your dogs?
YES I try - with great results when I get it right. This has come entirely from CM. I don't think anyone else has ever recommended it or explained it to me.

Have you ever used Foot tapping for attention?
Have you ever used Foot tapping for correction?

YES. I'm not sure whether to class it as attention or correction - somewhere between the two probably.
We have beagles and they are prone to, well...beagling. Once they've picked up a scent they are oblivious to everything. It's important to see the signs and interrupt them before they 'go off on one'. Verbals are less effective than signals or touch with our two - I think the ears are the first thing to shut down. A quick nudge or tap snaps them out of it and gets their attention back on me (or on what they're supposed to be doing). I used to use my hand, but my dogs are small and an agility trainer pointed out that it wasn't good to be leaning over the dogs all the time to show the dog what I wanted. I found that she was right - the dogs response was better and they were less distracted if I stayed upright. So a foot tap or a nudge with my knee or calf tends to be what I use most in these situations.

This has come from instinct rather than from watching CM. However, his demonstrations and explanations have helped me to understand why it works. And perhaps to use it more effectively.

Have you ever used "tsstg" for attention
Have you ever used "tsstg" for correction

Yes to both. Although with ours the sound you make or the word you use is irrelevant. In fact I don't even need to make a sound. I guess it's the body language, energy or something like that the dogs pick up on and respond to. There are a variety of words, sounds and visualisations tha work for me, but I think to the dogs it's always the same thing. Certain words or sounds just help me to get the right energy, body language or whatever it is they are picking up on.

This is something that has come exclusively from watching CM. I see a lot of trainers using negative markers, but the important thing that I've picked up from CM is the energy or body language. That's what my dogs respond so well to - not the negative marker.

Have you ever used the "hand bite" for attention
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for correction

No, I've never tried it.

Do you use prong collars
Do you use the illusion collar, or other NONslip slipcollar

No. Our dogs have always been pretty good onlead.

Have you ever used flooding to overcome your dogs fear
No. Our dogs don't have any fears.

Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor
Have you ever pinned your dog to the fllor for any reason other than aggression
Do you alpha roll your dog?

No.

We don't have problem dogs. They're pretty good really. Our interest when watching the show lies in dealing with every day stuff. Although we have found one or two of his actual techniques useful as described above.

Mostly I like CM's guidlines regarding rules, boundaries and limitations. The emphasis on exercise first and then discipline then affection. Being a strong leader for your dogs. All of this I find leads to happy, well balanced dogs. The trainers I've spoken to all seem to agree with this stuff - it's just that they don't explicitly teach it.

Some people have a natural affinity with dogs. That, coupled with extensive experience can result in an ability to instinctively behave the right way around any dog to ensure the best possible behavior. These people can be very good trainers if they have the ability to understand that not everyone has these instincts, and the talent to help people learn to do it.

Lots of trainers will tell you "of course I do these things - it's obvious stuff!". Well no. It's not obvious to the majority of inexperienced dog owners. Part of being a good teacher is making the not-so-obvious obvious to the slowest of students! CM does this particular job well in my opinion.

When it comes to the techniques and methods that he uses with problem dogs I can appreciate why many people critisise him. Such methods are dangerous in the wrong hands. I prefer to reserve judgement as to whether HE is using the best possible methods with the dogs in question. I know quite a few trainers that insist that only positive methods should be used with problem dogs. Yet repeatedly I hear these trainers telling people that their dog is beyond help and should be PTS or returned to the rehoming centre.

I've had dealings with one behaviorist - highly regarded in our area. She was very disparaging of CM AND of positive trainers...and pretty much everyone else she could think of! However, she did specialise in very aggresive, dangerous dogs and whilst I didn't get into indepth discussion on the topic a few of her comments indicated that she used much harsher methods than the typical 'positive trainer' would be comfortable with. She did in fact comment at one point that some people considered her to be harsh with her dogs but she explained that when you have a dog that's prone to serious aggression you really have to stay on top of it.

But anyway, I'm rambling. I use a lot of CM's methods and guidlines when they are relevant to raising normal, well balanced dogs. Some I have learnt from him, others I've learnt from other trainers that share his views on a lot of issues. I have no firm views on the methods he uses with 'problem dogs' simply because I don't have a problem dog and haven't really looked in depth into methods for dealing with them.
elaineb
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30-09-2009, 07:55 PM
I clicked the first one about exercise but not in the way CM does it, I don't run, cycle, or in line skate with my dogs...God forbid I would be either in A&E or the morgue

Most of the time my two are off lead (in the park) we walk to and from there on lead, and sometimes we will walk them through the lanes on lead too! But they can be dogs, they sniff, play ball, meet other dogs and generally do doggy things
Jackie
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30-09-2009, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by elaineb View Post
I clicked the first one about exercise but not in the way CM does it, I don't run, cycle, or in line skate with my dogs...God forbid I would be either in A&E or the morgue

Most of the time my two are off lead (in the park) we walk to and from there on lead, and sometimes we will walk them through the lanes on lead too! But they can be dogs, they sniff, play ball, meet other dogs and generally do doggy things
Me too, exersice/discipline /love...love /exersice/ discipline.

I dont have a rigid rule, they get all off the above in spades full. NOT the CM way
mishflynn
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01-10-2009, 04:36 AM
SADLEY the poll cant be changed to allow more than one tick!!!!

Hopefully any Pro CMers may like to list what they do or dont do out of my list?
mishflynn
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01-10-2009, 04:40 AM
Originally Posted by scarter View Post
I see exactly what you're getting at. And from discussions on other threads I think a lot of people agree that there is a great deal of common ground.

Here's my answers:

Do you make sure your dog has enough exercise?
YES - VERY imporant! This didn't come from CM, but I did get a lot of good tips from him on the hows, whys and whens of exercise.

Do you use "calm Energy" when handling your dogs?
YES I try - with great results when I get it right. This has come entirely from CM. I don't think anyone else has ever recommended it or explained it to me.

Have you ever used Foot tapping for attention?
Have you ever used Foot tapping for correction?

YES. I'm not sure whether to class it as attention or correction - somewhere between the two probably.
We have beagles and they are prone to, well...beagling. Once they've picked up a scent they are oblivious to everything. It's important to see the signs and interrupt them before they 'go off on one'. Verbals are less effective than signals or touch with our two - I think the ears are the first thing to shut down. A quick nudge or tap snaps them out of it and gets their attention back on me (or on what they're supposed to be doing). I used to use my hand, but my dogs are small and an agility trainer pointed out that it wasn't good to be leaning over the dogs all the time to show the dog what I wanted. I found that she was right - the dogs response was better and they were less distracted if I stayed upright. So a foot tap or a nudge with my knee or calf tends to be what I use most in these situations.

This has come from instinct rather than from watching CM. However, his demonstrations and explanations have helped me to understand why it works. And perhaps to use it more effectively.

Have you ever used "tsstg" for attention
Have you ever used "tsstg" for correction

Yes to both. Although with ours the sound you make or the word you use is irrelevant. In fact I don't even need to make a sound. I guess it's the body language, energy or something like that the dogs pick up on and respond to. There are a variety of words, sounds and visualisations tha work for me, but I think to the dogs it's always the same thing. Certain words or sounds just help me to get the right energy, body language or whatever it is they are picking up on.

This is something that has come exclusively from watching CM. I see a lot of trainers using negative markers, but the important thing that I've picked up from CM is the energy or body language. That's what my dogs respond so well to - not the negative marker.

Have you ever used the "hand bite" for attention
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for correction

No, I've never tried it.

Do you use prong collars
Do you use the illusion collar, or other NONslip slipcollar

No. Our dogs have always been pretty good onlead.

Have you ever used flooding to overcome your dogs fear
No. Our dogs don't have any fears.

Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor
Have you ever pinned your dog to the fllor for any reason other than aggression
Do you alpha roll your dog?

No.

We don't have problem dogs. They're pretty good really. Our interest when watching the show lies in dealing with every day stuff. Although we have found one or two of his actual techniques useful as described above.

Mostly I like CM's guidlines regarding rules, boundaries and limitations. The emphasis on exercise first and then discipline then affection. Being a strong leader for your dogs. All of this I find leads to happy, well balanced dogs. The trainers I've spoken to all seem to agree with this stuff - it's just that they don't explicitly teach it.

Some people have a natural affinity with dogs. That, coupled with extensive experience can result in an ability to instinctively behave the right way around any dog to ensure the best possible behavior. These people can be very good trainers if they have the ability to understand that not everyone has these instincts, and the talent to help people learn to do it.

Lots of trainers will tell you "of course I do these things - it's obvious stuff!". Well no. It's not obvious to the majority of inexperienced dog owners. Part of being a good teacher is making the not-so-obvious obvious to the slowest of students! CM does this particular job well in my opinion.

When it comes to the techniques and methods that he uses with problem dogs I can appreciate why many people critisise him. Such methods are dangerous in the wrong hands. I prefer to reserve judgement as to whether HE is using the best possible methods with the dogs in question. I know quite a few trainers that insist that only positive methods should be used with problem dogs. Yet repeatedly I hear these trainers telling people that their dog is beyond help and should be PTS or returned to the rehoming centre.

I've had dealings with one behaviorist - highly regarded in our area. She was very disparaging of CM AND of positive trainers...and pretty much everyone else she could think of! However, she did specialise in very aggresive, dangerous dogs and whilst I didn't get into indepth discussion on the topic a few of her comments indicated that she used much harsher methods than the typical 'positive trainer' would be comfortable with. She did in fact comment at one point that some people considered her to be harsh with her dogs but she explained that when you have a dog that's prone to serious aggression you really have to stay on top of it.

But anyway, I'm rambling. I use a lot of CM's methods and guidlines when they are relevant to raising normal, well balanced dogs. Some I have learnt from him, others I've learnt from other trainers that share his views on a lot of issues. I have no firm views on the methods he uses with 'problem dogs' simply because I don't have a problem dog and haven't really looked in depth into methods for dealing with them.

Thanks good post!!!! Exactly what i wanted really!

I wanted to see what a pro CMer actually did day to day, & you def arent OTT!!! good!!!

& interestingly you did things yourself anyway!
mishflynn
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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01-10-2009, 04:44 AM
Do you make sure your dog has enough exercise?
Do you use "calm Energy" when handling your dogs?
Have you ever used Foot tapping for attention?
Have you ever used Foot tapping for correction?
Have you ever used "tsstg" for attention
Have you ever used "tsstg" for correction
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for attention
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for correction
Do you use prong collars
Do you use the illusion collar, or other NONslip slipcollar Have you ever used flooding to overcome your dogs fear
Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor
Have you ever pinned your dog to the fllor for any reason other than aggression
Do you alpha roll your dog?



Here is the list! i will add my snswers after ive trainined mav (yes it is 5.45 am!!!!!! & im taking my dog out training!!!!!!!!)
Krusewalker
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01-10-2009, 05:48 AM
i cant take part as the poll doesnt work as it wont allow more than one answer
mishflynn
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Location: Cardiff, UK
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01-10-2009, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
i cant take part as the poll doesnt work as it wont allow more than one answer

I know i Co*ked it up, sorry its a rubbish thread
mishflynn
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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01-10-2009, 12:36 PM
Do you make sure your dog has enough exercise?

Yes, my dogs are exercised, but unlike CM never before training. I want them full on for training, not mellow!!!!

I will not over exercise obese dogs or exercise lame dogs either.

Do you use "calm Energy" when handling your dogs?

Yes mainly, we are very chilled, unless we are building drive in training. Dogs react to different types of energy, there are lots of different types not just "bad" & calm


Have you ever used Foot tapping for attention?
Have you ever used Foot tapping for correction?


Both of these NO. a big fat no!!!! much too dangerous, if your dog moves or u misjudge it.

Whats wrong with training the dog to respond to its name for attention, & "no" for correction

Have you ever used "tsstg" for attention

No as above if i want attention i simple say the dogs name

Have you ever used "tsstg" for correction
no but tbh i dont have too. If your dog responded to this as a correction i would be quite happy with that, its how you would teach the differnce in the attention Tsst & the correction tsst would bother me, as asking for attention should be postive & a correction isnt


Have you ever used the "hand bite" for attention

no & i believe this would be too negative

Have you ever used the "hand bite" for correction

No but i will grab hold of my dogs collar for a correction, but thats more of a firm hold than a jab

Do you use prong collars
Nope
Do you use the illusion collar, or other NONslip slipcollar

No i actually dislike the llusion More than the prong!!!!!!

Have you ever used flooding to overcome your dogs fear

No & never would, this is not the relationship i want with my dog, id prefer a slow build with the dog Trusting ME to make the right descisions.

Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor

I do not alpha roll but have pinned a dog that attacked another dog, i would also pin any dog that tried to bite me. This would involve me with my had in its collar, head & neck on the floor, whilst i told it off


Have you ever pinned your dog to the fllor for any reason other than aggression

No

Do you alpha roll your dog?

No
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