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View Poll Results: Poll - Do you agree you should be alpha male over your dog?
Yes 70 39.55%
No 70 39.55%
Other, please specify 37 20.90%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Pidge
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16-04-2009, 08:04 AM

Humans must be the alpha male

Who agrees with this statement? Who agrees that you must assert your authority over your dog and show them you are the pack leader etc etc.

Poll it up babies! ;o)
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Ramble
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16-04-2009, 08:06 AM
No. I don't agree. I feel my dogs need to respect me and have manners and vice versa. My approach to parenting is the same. I listen to my son, he listens to me. I do the same with my dogs.
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Tassle
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16-04-2009, 08:14 AM
Other....

Dogs and people are different species....with the best will in the world we cannot hope to behave like a dog (scent patterns/bodylanguage etc)

However - that does not mean that we should not set rules and boundries. This should help us live in harmony.
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Pidge
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16-04-2009, 08:19 AM
Very interesting.

Tassle, isn't that really the "no" answer though? Just wondering as I meant it to be the option where you disagree with this whole "alpha male" thing as you need to live in harmony with your pets, but boundaries must still be set.

Maybe I wasn't specific enough.
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magpye
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16-04-2009, 08:21 AM
I agree with many of the concepts behind the broad statement 'be the pack leader', in that what I think he means is 'take charge'. I am not about to go regurgitating offal to assert my place. (Nor do I think this works.. personally i think the wolves are humouring him)...

I agree that I am the boss of them. It is my role to set the "rules, boundaries and limitations" for them. I also agree that if you do not act with confidence or 'calm assertive energy', if you are nervous or confused, the dog may try to assist by taking over, or may lose respect for you all together. But if you have built a good solid relationship with your dog and have al the right building blocks in place, then the dog should just snap back into line as soon as the crisis passes. For example, after a bad walk where I had been shouted at by a man for 'having one of them banned wolfdogs'... I was shaken and just wanted to get back to the car... The next person who approached me on the path, instead of being met by my usually happy go lucky roaming three, got a face full of close to my legs growling menace! I quickly realised what I had done. Took control of the situation back from the dogs and sent them out to greet him happily...

But...

I don't think that dogs perceive you as another dog, they have a clear idea of human and dog. Their default is to compromise and fit in with the human world. Most dogs are happy to follow even the weakest 'leaders'. We teach them the ways to fit in with our human world, commands, rules or behaviour and they learn to do what we want because that is how the dog has evolved. As a companion and hunting partner. Our relationship is that of master and subordinate, not hierarchical equals.

I voted 'other'
I don't agree with the statement live in harmony with our pets..

I think.. Be the boss of your life and take charge of your pets
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Tassle
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16-04-2009, 08:23 AM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
Very interesting.

Tassle, isn't that really the "no" answer though? Just wondering as I meant it to be the option where you disagree with this whole "alpha male" thing as you need to live in harmony with your pets, but boundaries must still be set.

Maybe I wasn't specific enough.
Ok - But I don't want to live in harmony with my pets - I want them to live in harmony with me.....does that make sense?
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lovezois
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16-04-2009, 08:23 AM
I agree with Ramble on this one.
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Pidge
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16-04-2009, 08:25 AM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Ok - But I don't want to live in harmony with my pets - I want them to live in harmony with me.....does that make sense?
Yes. It does ;o)
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Carole
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16-04-2009, 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
No. I don't agree. I feel my dogs need to respect me and have manners and vice versa. My approach to parenting is the same. I listen to my son, he listens to me. I do the same with my dogs.
I tend to follow the same rules as Ramble too

They probably see me as the one who feeds, walks and plays with them most. Whether they see me as a pack leader who knows
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labradork
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16-04-2009, 08:41 AM
A resounding 'no' from me. The whole "you must be the pack leader" mumbo-jumbo was brought to light by a couple of trainers in the 60's I believe, based on studies of behaviour done on captive wolf packs. As we know, dogs are not wolves, and studies of captive wolves can in no way be compared to our domestic dogs that live in our homes and sleep in our beds.

So, the 'be the alpha' theories are just that -- theories, and severely flawed ones at that. Most 'alpha' theories talk of dominating your dog and making your dog work for absolutely everything for no or very limited rewards. I compare that to us working for free. Would WE want to get up in morning and work for free? how many people can honestly say they would be motivated to work if they didn't get paid? very, very few of us I suspect. Well, it is the same for dogs. That is why programs like Cesar Millan bug me so much. It is all negative, negative, negative -- where on earth is the incentive for the dog to work? dogs work operantly and all modern behavioural science points towards REWARD not punishment (dominance) based training as the most effective way for canines to learn.
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