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Borderdawn
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11-07-2008, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27 View Post
Is it classed as hunting if a dog kills a rabbit without being instructed to?
You'd have to prove it wasnt intentional.
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Lottie
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11-07-2008, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
What I'm doing with little Jet is making her believe that it is just one big game of fetch, and then that way she will hopefully start to bring them back to me once she as caught one herself.

Basically all we are doing is using a rabbit that Jess has caught and brought back to me. So what I do is put it on the floor and get Jet to bring it back to me in the same way as she will a toy. Up to yet she hasn't tried to eat it, because it's still early days and she just loves playing to much.

Got to say that I wouldn't be to happy if Jess eat a rabbit that had mixy.
hmm I rarely say this but... not a chance!

It'd be down her throat before she got anywhere near me

I'm having success getting her to leave things at the moment so I'll just stick with that. I've never told her she can't eat rabbits she's caught but she knows she's not allowed to eat rubbish etc so I think she just views it as the same thing.

She doesn't really chase to kill anyway - she tends to chase to flush things out but only because she likes chasing things that are moving. As I said, she's only ever killed suffering animals so I don't mind that. Plus, she cleans up after herself

I do worry that it'll happen in front of children but in all of her three years she's caught two and they were a while back now and she hasn't bothered since - even when a field mouse just stood looking at her, she only tried to get it to run

Thankfully if anything's really manky (like dead fish at the side of the lake) she tends to pee on it rather than eat it

Just seen the last sentence. I did check with the vet as it concerned me too but it can't be passed onto dogs and neither dog suffered (yes, they both ate it) following their meal.
Seeing as how I was told it wouldn't hurt them I didn't mind them killing it and eating it - at least it wasn't suffering anymore.
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Sarah27
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12-07-2008, 09:29 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
You'd have to prove it wasnt intentional.
I see - that would be very difficult. Luckily, mine don't even come close to catching them!
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red collar
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12-07-2008, 10:33 AM
Originally Posted by Sarah27 View Post
I see - that would be very difficult. Luckily, mine don't even come close to catching them!
the Hunting Act is a nightmare. Nowhere iirc (and I've read it umpteen times) does it actually define 'hunting'. It assumes everyone knows what it means. So, which of the following scenarios is actually 'hunting':
  • owner sets out intending to encourage dog to seek, chase and kill quarry but falls in a ditch in the first 100yds and returns home having done none of the above. The intent is there, but none of the actions.
  • owner is a divvy who doesn't realise that the dog is seeking, chasing and killing. The dog knows it is hunting, but cannot be culpable under the law but the owner may be.
  • owner deliberately sets out to seek and chase (maybe videoing for posterity ) but does not wish the dog to kill. Owner just allows/encourages the dog to 'chase'.
  • owner has written permission to catch rabbits, but the dog puts up a hare and catches it.
  • landowner exercises his 3 lurchers on his own fields where there are hares. 5 hares are reputed to eat the equivalent amount of growing crops to 1 sheep. Landowner is therefore not too gutted when the dogs catch an odd hare.
  • owner uses their dog to chase deer from woodland that they own because the deer are killing saplings, but does not wish to kill the deer, just chase it away.
  • owner and friends use their terriers for mousing, phone the police and confess, and tell them where and when the next mousing event will take place.

I don't know how the above would be viewed by a judge. It seems to be at their discretion, but I think those who knowingly let their dog chase prohibited quarry on the basis that they don't want to kill it are on shaky ground in the legal sense. I don't think the killing is strictly necessary for a charge of 'hunting' to be brought.

Basically the Act is a cr*p piece of legislation. When government brings in a new law, creating criminals out of previously law abiding citizens you would think they could at least come up with a definition of the 'crime'.
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Evie
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12-07-2008, 12:07 PM
If someone did end up in court because their dog had caught a random one off rabbit, wouldn't it be up to the prosecution to prove there was intent to deliberately hunt?

Tools of the trade found on the owner at the time, for example?
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Sarah27
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12-07-2008, 12:11 PM
Yeah it would probably go like that - the prosecution would have to prove the intent rather than the defence prove there was no intent.

Are rabbits prohibited quarry then?

Great post Redcollar - really got me thinking there
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workinggsd
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12-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by Annestaff View Post
We had a complaint about it and felt it was better in this section
Nothing more natural for a RAW feeder, oops it didn't come in a plastic bag
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Evie
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12-07-2008, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27 View Post
Are rabbits prohibited quarry then?
No, but you must have the landowners permisson to hunt rabbits on their land.
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red collar
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12-07-2008, 02:01 PM
I agree it's unlikely that an owner would end up in court after a one-off bunny incident but IMO that is more to do with the passers by and police taking a view about best use of resources than about the actual letter of the law.

On the other hand if your dog shows an inappropriate interest in a hole that happens to be a badger sett, if you haven't got a good reason to be there and get caught I'd say you were what's technically known as fecked , as I believe the burden of proof in that instance is reversed, and you have to prove that you weren't after the badger.

What a minefield, just going for a walk in the countryside
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Losos
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12-07-2008, 03:23 PM
Red Collar - Thanks for your post 44 - It is amazing that the legislation doesn't begin with a definition of 'hunting'

In any other area e.g. a unniversity research paper the very first thing you are taught to do is define what the thesis is all about and it is mandatory in other proffessions as well to include a glossary of terms. Just shows the level of intelligence our politicians have!
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