Your understanding is partly correct Jackbox. The GSD was a "herder", but in a different style (and with different sheep/landscape etc) to BCs. The sheep (which are heavy, quiet sheep) are trained follow the shepherd and the GSD keeps them in line and out of crops, away from traffic etc. When the sheep arrive at their grazing they spread out and the GSD patrols the boundary to keep the sheep in one place.

The herding/tending GSD is a million miles away from the herding BC. The two cannot be compared.

So, in part, Zak definitely does not have the instinct of a BC - and why would he? He wouldn't. And secondly, there are very few GSDs, especially in the UK today, who have the required instinct to patrol boundaries and move sheep in the way his forefathers did - they simply haven't been bred for that purpose for years - if ever, in the UK.

If you are interested Gnasher, this link may help

http://www.german-shepherdherding.com/

Sorry Gnasher but you are still being a wee bit naive (said in the nicest possible way).

Basically, Zak will no doubt be able to come out with the collies and (human) shepherd and be absolutely safe around the sheep. His presence may even help move sheep etc, and he has already shown himself to be useful in the pens, moving sheep from one to another. However, he will never be able to be used single handedly.

Yes, some use a whistle, some will use hand signals, I have a loud voice so, even in a high wind, you can hear me 100 yards away.

From memory, I think there's a Vogrie training day coming up (is it a week on Saturday?), I think the field is available so I mightT be doing a bit of tracking as well

Senda way looking good, you get full marks for staying at the marker, they just need to hold position

The sheep herding looks fantastic as well btw

No, I appreciate that - and yes, I was being naive. I am just a bit of an old romantic where pedigree breeds are concerned - I like to think that dogs can still be used for the purposes for which they were originally created. Seems to me that Zak still has a very useful place in your pack, I am still amazed by those photos!

I'll follow your link, thanks for that

Moobli, that link is amazing, thanx so much! I'm going to save that website to my desktop and have a good old read when I get back later from walking the dogs, thanx again x

I thought that was what I said?? two different jobs, and not comparable

The GSD was bred to patrol boundaries, the BC was bred to work with the Shepherd moving and containing the sheep.

I may end up adding a whistle in, not sure yet. I never considered that my voice may need to travel over distance in inclement weather conditions.

Thanks for the reminder about the Vogrie day, but think I will just stick with my training at home and going once a month to the club at the mo. Once we are a bit more proficient I may brave the Vogrie gang

Thanks re: sendaway Nick. At the moment, I am just asking him to stop (ie stand). Is it a requirement in trials to have the dog stand/sit/down or does the position not matter, so long as the dog holds it?

Thanks for your comments

I do know where you are coming from Gnasher, but with GSDs (in this country at least) they were never really used for herding purposes anyway, and so to all intents and purposes can still do the job required of them - ie police and patrol work.

Oh and yes, Zak is very useful in many ways

Hope you enjoy the website Gnasher, it is really interesting.